# Dollhouse 2/20 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 21, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807 "2009-02-21T02:50:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/21 "2009-02-22T00:14:45Z")
By the way, does anyone doubt that Tahmoh Penikett’s adorably nervous neighbor is an Active? I felt like I was being hit repeatedly with a clue-by-four: it practically cut straight from evil boss saying she has him taken care of to the exchange with the neighbor; she’s just perfectly eager yet shy; then she notices the picture of Echo and they talk about it. Oy. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/22 "2009-02-22T00:42:46Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > By the way, does anyone doubt that Tahmoh Penikett’s adorably nervous neighbor is an Active? I felt like I was being hit repeatedly with a clue-by-four: it practically cut straight from evil boss saying she has him taken care of to the exchange with the neighbor; she’s just perfectly eager yet shy; then she notices the picture of Echo and they talk about it. Oy. Yeah, that was ham-handed. I will be extremely surprised if his neighbour isn’t spying on him. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/23 "2009-02-22T01:28:08Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The big problem, I think, is the clumsiness of the concept. The Dollhouse is able to do all this and still keep itself a secret? How do they get clients then? And, really, why are the dolls worth paying so much for? What can they offer that a $2000 an hour prostitute can’t? They did some handwaving in the first episode, but it didn’t wash. I’ve been pondering this since last week, and I think a plausible explanation would rest on three factors: 1. A high-priced prostitute or actor would be playing a role, and no matter how well they did it there would be a chance the facade would slip at some point. With the Active, there’s no facade to slip, because they truly believe they are whatever they’ve been imprinted to be. Someone with money gets to spend time with the whoever they want, with their skills and personality tailored to their desires and they never have to break the illusion if they don’t want to. 2. It would be difficult to find actors or prostitutes with the skills that Actives are given or, as we’ve seen, to agree to some of the stuff they do, like go out in the middle of nowhere with some guy they barely know. Unless someone found the right person, asking an actor or prostitute to skid a motorcycle at high speed without killing themselves or raft down a dangerous river would be a recipe for a dead actor/prostitute and an extremely awkward discussion with the police. 3. Perfect discretion. Clients can take Actives out in public without anyone guessing they’ve hired that person who adores them, and there’s no chance of an Active deciding to go to the press, a la Ted Haggard and Mike Jones, because they have no memory of what went on. ---
**Author:** ![Pigs\_in\_Space](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@Pigs\_in\_Space](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pigs_in_Space)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/24 "2009-02-22T04:39:20Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The big problem, I think, is the clumsiness of the concept. The Dollhouse is able to do all this and still keep itself a secret? How do they get clients then? And, really, why are the dolls worth paying so much for? What can they offer that a $2000 an hour prostitute can’t? They did some handwaving in the first episode, but it didn’t wash. I’m hoping that it’s a red herring and hiring out the dolls is just a sideline. The Dollhouse would be under the control of some unseen Evil Overlord (possibly Topher) doing this for his own purposes. Also, Harry Lennix is great, and they should keep Reed Diamond on maximum creepy mode from now on. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/25 "2009-02-22T05:20:23Z")
> [@Fionn](#): > > I’ve been pondering this since last week, and I think a plausible explanation would rest on three factors: > > 1. A high-priced prostitute or actor would be playing a role, and no matter how well they did it there would be a chance the facade would slip at some point. With the Active, there’s no facade to slip, because they truly believe they are whatever they’ve been imprinted to be. Someone with money gets to spend time with the whoever they want, with their skills and personality tailored to their desires and they never have to break the illusion if they don’t want to. > > 2. It would be difficult to find actors or prostitutes with the skills that Actives are given or, as we’ve seen, to agree to some of the stuff they do, like go out in the middle of nowhere with some guy they barely know. Unless someone found the right person, asking an actor or prostitute to skid a motorcycle at high speed without killing themselves or raft down a dangerous river would be a recipe for a dead actor/prostitute and an extremely awkward discussion with the police. > > 3. Perfect discretion. Clients can take Actives out in public without anyone guessing they’ve hired that person who adores them, and there’s no chance of an Active deciding to go to the press, a la Ted Haggard and Mike Jones, because they have no memory of what went on. And where else could you get all that at “exuberant prices”? ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/26 "2009-02-22T05:30:38Z")
> [@Fionn](#): > > I’ve been pondering this since last week, and I think a plausible explanation would rest on three factors: > > 1. A high-priced prostitute or actor would be playing a role, and no matter how well they did it there would be a chance the facade would slip at some point. With the Active, there’s no facade to slip, because they truly believe they are whatever they’ve been imprinted to be. Someone with money gets to spend time with the whoever they want, with their skills and personality tailored to their desires and they never have to break the illusion if they don’t want to. > > 2. It would be difficult to find actors or prostitutes with the skills that Actives are given or, as we’ve seen, to agree to some of the stuff they do, like go out in the middle of nowhere with some guy they barely know. Unless someone found the right person, asking an actor or prostitute to skid a motorcycle at high speed without killing themselves or raft down a dangerous river would be a recipe for a dead actor/prostitute and an extremely awkward discussion with the police. > > 3. Perfect discretion. Clients can take Actives out in public without anyone guessing they’ve hired that person who adores them, and there’s no chance of an Active deciding to go to the press, a la Ted Haggard and Mike Jones, because they have no memory of what went on. In addition to this, you get to know that the girl isn’t faking. With a prostitute it’s hard to get past the fact that the girl does not really like you, but with a Dollhouse girl it’s as if they found someone who is really into you. What I wonder is why they make the girls sign contracts or agree to become a doll if this is all illegal. Why not just kidnap the girls, wipe their memory, and sell them to clients for life? The girls don’t remember anything and you don’t even need to hire handlers to make sure they come back ok. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/27 "2009-02-22T05:42:54Z")
> [@jellyblue](#): > > It should just be called the Asshole Men Show. The mix of horrifying/titillating in 60 second increments is kind of getting to me. Sociopath cliche hunting female main character in the woods…/ **cut to Eliza doing tongue tricks on a Hulu commercial.** Ew. Just ew. So far I’m gob-smack-disappointed in Joss on this one. Wait, what? There was a sexy Hulu commercial? Damn you, TiVo! And I was digging this “90 seconds before Dollhouse returns” because it lets you know to hit the jump button exactly three times to skip all the commercials. :Erdosain goes to find the “undelete” feature on his TiVo.: ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/28 "2009-02-22T06:09:16Z")
I’m liking the icky, and not just because I like icky. I like it because I can’t think of any other show that has dared to be that icky. The Dollhouse is an ultimate bordello, humans treated like Real Dolls (I wonder if that’s where they got the idea) that are rented rather than sold. Over in IMHO I started a thread about “Would You Want A Significant Other If You Owned the Ultimate Sex Toy?” Well, Joss Wheedon is doing a series about the ultimate sex toy, bless him. I’m surprised the advertising hasn’t pointed this out in that wonderfully sleazy Fox Network way. Knowing Wheedon, I don’t think he’s going to take the series in a direction I would approve of, but that adds to the interest. The direction I would approve of is kinda predictable. How will Wheedon get the Dollhouse series turned in a direction HE would approve of? This week’s episode is starting to show some vague hints. I’m seriously interested. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/29 "2009-02-22T07:03:44Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > What implied this? Would she have been Alpha’s handler, explaining why he didn’t kill her? If so, she’d already been demoted to Doll by the time Alpha went on his rampage – she was very clearly in the “tabula rasa” state when they found her in the pile of bodies. What could a handler do that was so bad as to warrant forfeiting your personality as punishment? I’m not sure what to make of the switcheroo in the “do you trust me” speech. Possibly that she used to be a handler, but also possibly hinting that she’s still more than just the sum of her programming, despite their best efforts at creating a controlled end product. They expected her to react and make decisions based on the stuff that was programmed into her; instead she started making leaps beyond that, and discovered an aspect of personality that hadn’t been imprinted into her. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/30 "2009-02-22T07:08:56Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > In addition to this, you get to know that the girl isn’t faking. With a prostitute it’s hard to get past the fact that the girl does not really like you, but with a Dollhouse girl it’s as if they found someone who is really into you. > > What I wonder is why they make the girls sign contracts or agree to become a doll if this is all illegal. That’s a good question. My WAG would be that they want something on paper so that if they would have to cover their asses, they could restore an Active’s original personality with memories of working in a different, legal capacity for the company. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/31 "2009-02-22T07:20:57Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > If so, she’d already been demoted to Doll by the time Alpha went on his rampage – she was very clearly in the “tabula rasa” state when they found her in the pile of bodies. What could a handler do that was so bad as to warrant forfeiting your personality as punishment? > > I’m not sure what to make of the switcheroo in the “do you trust me” speech. Possibly that she used to be a handler, but also possibly hinting that she’s still more than just the sum of her programming, despite their best efforts at creating a controlled end product. They expected her to react and make decisions based on the stuff that was programmed into her; instead she started making leaps beyond that, and discovered an aspect of personality that hadn’t been imprinted into her. That seems to me to just show that she’s more then just a ‘doll’ and the sum of her programing. She’s ‘special’ as others in the show keep mentioning. Also it is creating even more conflict with her handler who’s starting to realize that she is a real person that’s terribly exploited who in this case rose to the occasion and saved his life. No doubt this will come into play later when he either betrays the Dollhouse for her or is conflicted when he has to chase her down. Oh and unless more is revealed I don’t think she was a handler. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Brother\_Walker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f08c70/32.png) [@Uncle\_Brother\_Walker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Brother_Walker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/32 "2009-02-22T13:18:52Z")
> [@jellyblue](#): > > Sociopath cliche hunting female main character in the woods…/cut to Eliza doing tongue tricks on a Hulu commercial. I am _soooo_ lovin’ me the Hulu commercials. /hijack ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/33 "2009-02-22T15:42:51Z")
I just can’t get into the premise of this show at all, i’ve tried. It doesn’t make sense that a company so secretive that not only the FBI can’t find them but the guy investigating it is treated as if he was chasing bigfoot would ever find clients. Theres also no way anyone would be willing to pay what they would have to charge in order to be viable, this aren’t 5000 an hour prostitutes their service has to be worth millions for a few days. A secret goverment organization would have made a lot more sense than a for profit bussiness. ---
**Author:** ![AmericanMaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@AmericanMaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmericanMaid)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/34 "2009-02-22T15:56:38Z")
Which Whedonverse actor will wind up playing Alpha? Alexis Denisof can pull off psycho creepy fairly well. If Nicholas Brendon is out of rehab, he’d need a job. Alan Tudyk could be really interesting as Alpha. ---
**Author:** ![CaerieD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@CaerieD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaerieD)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/35 "2009-02-22T15:56:56Z")
I watched both episodes back to back last night on Hulu and, yes, there was a lot of “icky” to this. I have to give props to the writers, though. When I first heard the concept I thought, “Oh that’s stupid. How often do you need a custom made person? All people would want them for is sex.” Loe and behold, that’s acknowledged right off the bat! I’m willing to accept that it’s highly secretive and only spread by word of mouth among the fabulously wealthy pervs. Every sci-fi show is allowed one great conspiracy, so long as said conspiracy is introduced early on rather than as a deus ex machina. This one even has a leg up on most conspiracies, because the main people involved in it don’t know it exists. So, somewhere out there are rumors, passed along at the country club and parties, about this place where they can make your fantasies come true. Only those wealthy enough to afford it will ever find out if it’s true or not, and they sure as hell aren’t talking. Anyone who doesn’t pass inspection likely never gets an interview and is hit full in the face with whatever legitimate cover the company has. To anyone who can’t get in, it’s just a fairy tale. A rich boy’s sick fairy tale that some stupid FBI agent believes, and so he gets made fun of for chasing fantasies. Word of mouth, particularly among people who’d have a mindset towards seeking out the exclusive and uncommon, can work. If word of mouth is so ridiculous that nobody believes it _except_ those that can afford it, even better. So far, I’m really enjoying it and can’t wait to see where it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/36 "2009-02-22T16:25:11Z")
I’ll give it a few more watches - hell, I’ll probably watch the entire 13-ep run! - but I’m not thrilled so far. A question I don’t believe has been asked/answered yet - why is Boyd doing his job, if he seems to dislike everything about it? I’m not a huge fan of the Dollhouse head of security - the guy from Homicide? But it was, um, interesting that they turned up the creep factor on hm so much. Waiting for the the dog to bite the hand that feeds. I’m not sure I see the long-term legs in the premise. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/37 "2009-02-22T16:35:50Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > A question I don’t believe has been asked/answered yet - why is Boyd doing his job, if he seems to dislike everything about it? I’m not a huge fan of the Dollhouse head of security - the guy from Homicide? But it was, um, interesting that they turned up the creep factor on hm so much. Waiting for the the dog to bite the hand that feeds. Eh - plenty of people have jobs they hate. The pay is probably fantastic, and he may be relying on that to pay his mortgage/send his kids to college/support his (non-Active) mistresses/whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/38 "2009-02-22T16:55:30Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Eh - plenty of people have jobs they hate. The pay is probably fantastic, and he may be relying on that to pay his mortgage/send his kids to college/support his (non-Active) mistresses/whatever. Lessee, there’s a word for (non-Active) mistresses … what is it? what is it? … oh, yeah … “wives.” ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/39 "2009-02-22T17:31:56Z")
> [@AmericanMaid](#): > > Which Whedonverse actor will wind up playing Alpha? Alexis Denisof can pull off psycho creepy fairly well. If Nicholas Brendon is out of rehab, he’d need a job. Alan Tudyk could be really interesting as Alpha. Maybe it’s Echo. Maybe that’s why she was the only one not dead. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807/40 "2009-02-22T17:37:20Z")
Even better, maybe Alpha is the FBI guy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-2-20/486807.md?page=3)