# Dollhouse 4/10 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 11, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717 "2009-04-11T02:12:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/61 "2009-04-14T16:33:09Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > But Old Lady didn’t tell Victor to go to the beach house or give him directions to get there. Such instructions would have to be programmed into the imprint, or else he’d forget that Old Lady wasn’t his lover every time they wiped and reprogrammed him. Remember “Roger” is in love with DeWitt, not with Old Lady LonelyHearts, even though as far as the Dollhouse is aware he’s supposed to be in love with the little old lady. That’s some serious imprint tampering. Roger (Victor) did seem like an ideal fellow many women, it might have been a base personailty of understanding, listening, cheerfulness, true love and funny. The tampering may have needed to include such things as driving a stick shift and mad fencing skillz, as I can’t imagine the Geriatric Princess fencing against Roger. My personal fanwank for Roger’s escape is the Geratirc Princess is an elderly relative of deWitt’s who has memory problems. Roger did not (technically) promise to stay out of trouble. 🆒 > [@Kaio](#): > > Maybe, but I didn’t really get the impression that Topher had any idea she wasn’t at HQ like she said she was. I didn’t assume that Echo even needed to find her or call her back – she was only supposed to be gone for a weekend, at most they’ve have to hold Dominick for a day, and they have a giant security team complete with SWAT-level training and equipment. Even if they never reached her on the phone it wouldn’t be that long before she came back on her own. Somehow, Echo the Spyhunter and the tied-up Dominic ended up at the beach house with DeWitt, the sleeping Roger (Victor) and the fencing floor where the final confrontation happened. If there was a throwaway line about how Echo got there I missed it. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/62 "2009-04-14T17:35:29Z")
How did this episode end? My DVR cut off shortly after Dominic was forcibly wiped. I didn’t think I missed much, but now it sounds like I might have. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/63 "2009-04-14T17:50:28Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > How did this episode end? My DVR cut off shortly after Dominic was forcibly wiped. I didn’t think I missed much, but now it sounds like I might have. Doing this from memory, so I hope I’ve got this right. DeWitt learns from Topher that Echo actually asked to be imprinted. She expressed surprise and Topher asks if Dewitt wants here wiped a second time as a precaution. Dewitt says no, and makes a comment about how she (Echo) actually may have saved the Dollhouse. Dewitt then goes to get her wound sewed up (without anesthetic, natch) by Dr. Saunders. DeWitt asks how she could have missed Dominic’s duplicity. Saunders says that persons who were that close can miss things. Dewitt replies “we weren’t close; we were working closely together; that’s different”. Saunders says it’s OK to feel a sense of loss, and Dewitt says, more or less, “I’ve lost nothing I can’t live without”, while at the same moment she is seen to be looking at Victor, who is back walking around the House as his normal wiped self. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/64 "2009-04-14T17:59:39Z")
Whoops, forgot the very last bit. Boyd gets promoted to head of Security. He says he’d rather stay with Echo but Dewitt nixes that. The last scene has Topher imprinting Echo with dependence on her new handler, while Boyd looks on dejectedly. Hmm, that’s some economical screenwriting there. Quite a lot of story covered in about five minutes running time, yet without any of it feeling rushed. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/65 "2009-04-14T19:18:56Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I know that. As did the person who wrote the message I was replying to. Thanks. I didn’t know what Rossum was, or at least didn’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![Atrael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Atrael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atrael)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/66 "2009-04-14T19:25:31Z")
Actually, what I noticed in the last scenes was that even though Echo was being “imprinted” with the new handler, when she did that “I trust you with my life” line, she was making direct eye contact with Boyd. That was a very well done scene. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/67 "2009-04-14T20:11:31Z")
> [@Atrael](#): > > Actually, what I noticed in the last scenes was that even though Echo was being “imprinted” with the new handler, when she did that “I trust you with my life” line, she was making direct eye contact with Boyd. That was a very well done scene. Exactly. This is what my wife pointed out. She is not getting imprinted on her new handler…which will prove problematic. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/68 "2009-04-14T21:00:17Z")
Or she’s staying imprinted on Boyd, which might be differently problematic. ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/69 "2009-04-14T22:27:57Z")
Do you think there’s a reason that DeWitt refused anesthetic, aside from being bad-ass and amazing? _swoon_ My roommate suggested that perhaps she was pregnant, thusly no longer requiring “Roger’s” services, holding her tummy at odd intervals and refusing anesthetic. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/70 "2009-04-14T23:16:45Z")
I was idly wondering about how the Dollhouse handled birth control last night, but I didn’t connect it to DeWitt. I think I was wondering about Katie’sMom/November/Mellie’s ability to give meaningful consent (as discussed upthread), and what would happen if a Doll became pregnant or impregnated another. What would be the legal standing when “Victor” is released from his contract and discovers he’s liable for child support to 27 children, all conceived without his knowledge or consent? I don’t recall DeWitt holding her tummy, except when she was so upset about Dominic and crying with Roger (Victor). And while normally any Female TV Character who unambiguously has sex does usually show up preggers, that’s not normal for Whedon’s tv series. I’d be surprised if it happened. But it could be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/71 "2009-04-14T23:27:24Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > I was idly wondering about how the Dollhouse handled birth control last night, but I didn’t connect it to DeWitt. I think I was wondering about Katie’sMom/November/Mellie’s ability to give meaningful consent (as discussed upthread), and what would happen if a Doll became pregnant or impregnated another. What would be the legal standing when “Victor” is released from his contract and discovers he’s liable for child support to 27 children, all conceived without his knowledge or consent? I’m not sure how they’d handle Victor, but I kind of assumed “going to see Dr. Saunders” after an engagement involved taking morning after pills for the ladies. Not sure how that’d work with long-term engagements (like Mellie), unless they’re sure to bring her in every few mos for a work up and possible abortion, if needed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/72 "2009-04-14T23:41:47Z")
I think a steady diet of morning after pills might be bad for you. Easier to keep them on some form of the usual oral birth control pills. I think I’m going to have to fanwank that the Dollhouse reversibly sterilizes all the Dolls for the duration of their contracts. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/73 "2009-04-14T23:56:19Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > But Old Lady didn’t tell Victor to go to the beach house or give him directions to get there. Such instructions would have to be programmed into the imprint, or else he’d forget that Old Lady wasn’t his lover every time they wiped and reprogrammed him. Remember “Roger” is in love with DeWitt, not with Old Lady LonelyHearts, even though as far as the Dollhouse is aware he’s supposed to be in love with the little old lady. That’s some serious imprint tampering. What I was thinking is that Victor was imprinted to fall for a woman named Catherine and when he first gets to the Old Lady’s house she tells him that Catherine is waiting for him at Dewitt’s house. Then he and Dewitt work out the terms so that he knows what to do the next time he visits and doesn’t have to be told or programed with anything new. Now that I think about it I realize that this would require Victor to remember his past encounters with Dewitt. Echo usually doesn’t remember her past encounters with regular clients, but November remembers all her previous encounters with Ballard, so it can be done. > [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > What would be the legal standing when “Victor” is released from his contract and discovers he’s liable for child support to 27 children, all conceived without his knowledge or consent? A well drafted contract would clear this problem up. Plus, since the Dollhouse is illegal, I don’t think anyone will be so quick to sue. Without a contract, I would hate to be the presiding judge on those cases. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/74 "2009-04-15T00:03:53Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Now that I think about it I realize that this would require Victor to remember his past encounters with Dewitt. He does. When she complains about work, he names the dollhouse before she does. He also remembers his handler’s stash of bodice-ripper novels. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/75 "2009-04-15T00:17:09Z")
As far back as BtVS season 1, episode 1, Joess had wanted to kill off a character that was in the title credits. Budget problems apparently prevented him from shooting a unique set of credits for Xander’s friend Jesse, who seems very much like a regular up until the time he’s killed. And in season 6, Amber Benson’s name appears in the title credits in the very episode in which her character is killed. So those people that are seeking some inference on the basis of presence or absence of a name in the credits… forget it. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/76 "2009-04-15T09:01:44Z")
I thought DeWitt refused anaesthetic because she doesn’t want to be in a compromised state & let any secrets slip out. Not that that should stop topical use of a cocainoid. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/77 "2009-04-15T18:22:15Z")
It’s also possible DeWitt was punishing herself, either for failing to see Dominic’s betrayal, or for her (imagined) weakness in wanting Roger. Or for allowing her protocol-evading chair-chip to be discovered (assuming it was hers). ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/78 "2009-04-16T06:47:35Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The Mellie persona _does_ consent. Adelle said she’d fallen in love, although her original mission was probably just keeping an eye on him. He’s never met November–the wiped version of a “real” person whom _none_ of us has met. But Mellie isn’t real – she’s a man-made composite personality, and now Ballard knows it. Mellie will cease to exist whenever the Dollhouse is done with her. Can what is essentially a fictional character consent to the use of a real person’s body? I don’t know the answer to that question, but you can bet Ballard is going to be thinking about that now. Personally, the ick factor would be too much for me, even if I could sit down and logically reason out that Mellie’s saying yes was legitimate consent. Deep down I’d never be really sure that it was okay. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/79 "2009-04-16T07:17:05Z")
I’m also pretty sure Mellie was programmed to fall in love with Ballard. What better way to control him than to make him feel responsible for her? ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717/80 "2009-04-16T17:53:57Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > But Mellie isn’t real – she’s a man-made composite personality, and now Ballard knows it. Mellie will cease to exist whenever the Dollhouse is done with her. Can what is essentially a fictional character consent to the use of a real person’s body? I don’t know the answer to that question, but you can bet Ballard is going to be thinking about that now. > > Personally, the ick factor would be too much for me, even if I could sit down and logically reason out that Mellie’s saying yes was legitimate consent. Deep down I’d never be really sure that it was okay. Well, November did consent to go into the Dollhouse, but I don’t know if Dewitt informed her that she was going to be a high class prostitute. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-4-10/492717.md?page=5)