# Dollhouse April 24th **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 25, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287 "2009-04-25T02:02:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/21 "2009-04-27T04:25:14Z")
A few thoughts… I like the show enough, that if Fox cancelled it now, I’d be kinda bummed, but could move on easily enough. I think it could be much better, stronger and darker in spots. Also, Topher only requested for a Doll for his “test”, he didn’t specify which Doll. He could just as easily gotten Victor to be his “friend” this year, over Sierra if he’d been available. Although, how he resists falling for her as the ultimate hot-girl-geek who adores you is entirely beyond me! Doesn’t sound any more fun than taking a cold shower, which is what I’d have to do after the fun was over. I’m split on Dushku. I don’t think she’s a great actress, but there are times where she surprises me. Although, while this show was designed with her in mind, I think there are plenty other actresses that could do a _far_ better job with her character. She seems too “self-aware” as an actress, which is okay when your character also happens to be a self-aware hot chick — but, I think this part demands that kind of ‘shedding yourself’ style acting. Especially when she has to play characters that are more everyday or average. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/22 "2009-04-27T04:53:20Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Also, Topher only requested for a Doll for his “test”, he didn’t specify which Doll. He could just as easily gotten Victor to be his “friend” this year, over Sierra if he’d been available. Although, how he resists falling for her as the ultimate hot-girl-geek who adores you is entirely beyond me! Doesn’t sound any more fun than taking a cold shower, which is what I’d have to do after the fun was over. I’m sure he knew who he was going to end up with, as there was a line about how Sierra was next in line, or had been the longest without being activated, or something. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/23 "2009-04-27T06:35:06Z")
Ahh. Perhaps, of course he’d be privy to that information, so it was probably a good guess for him. Alllthought, he only gets to do it once a year (presumably on his birthday or the same day every year), so he gets whoever’s available. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/24 "2009-04-27T11:02:39Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I’m split on Dushku. I don’t think she’s a great actress, but there are times where she surprises me. Although, while this show was designed with her in mind, I think there are plenty other actresses that could do a _far_ better job with her character. She seems too “self-aware” as an actress, which is okay when your character also happens to be a self-aware hot chick — but, I think this part demands that kind of ‘shedding yourself’ style acting. Especially when she has to play characters that are more everyday or average. That’s kind of how I feel. When she’s playing a tough girl from the 'hood, like Faith, I think she nails the role. But every personality she takes on in this show seems to have the same facial expressions, the same voice tones, etc.; it always feels like the same character to me. Of the little bit I’ve seen of Sierra, I think that actress is much better at assuming different roles and falling into them. ---
**Author:** ![infinitii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@infinitii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infinitii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/25 "2009-04-27T12:30:47Z")
> [@Offkenter](#): > > Infinitii, I just watched this episode again, with your comments in the back of my mind. I was never struck by Dushku’s limits as an actor. In fact, there were a couple of times when I was impressed by her use of body language. But I was struck with her voice. She has a VERY distinctive voice, and I think that may be why her acting seems flat. Her voice is enough of a distinguishing feature that it makes her delivery of dialog seem too similar to her other characters. > > What do you think? While I don’t think that would be the only issue with her acting, I could believe that her voice being the same may be the thing that doesn’t quite pull it all together for me, if that makes sense. However, while I haven’t seen this episode in a while, I seem to remember her doing very well as Buffy when they switched bodies, and I liked her character in **Bring It On** as well (but that was the first thing I saw her in so it’s hard to judge that). Of course, Dushku could also be playing Echo like she is not completely wiped but always retains certain elements, but I think that would be giving her too much credit. But I definitely agree with **Left Hand of Dorkness** that Dichen Lachman is much better at it, for whatever reason. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/26 "2009-04-27T12:32:59Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > As for why they don’t offer immortality… But, as has been discussed in many John Varley and ST transporter “would you or would you not” threads, it’s not REALLY immortality. > [@Khadaji](#): > > Topher’s arc made me a little sad. I thought that Sierra made a cute nerd-girl friend, but the fact that he has no friends outside his work and must create a friend on his birthday? Just sad. She was like a suped-up Buffy-bot. ---
**Author:** ![Offkenter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f08c70/32.png) [@Offkenter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Offkenter)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/27 "2009-04-27T14:42:49Z")
I agree that Dichen Lachman is a better actress. I also agree that Eliza Dushku is frequently “too much herself.” I just don’t think that Dushku is a BAD actress and she certainly isn’t bad enough to distract me from the story. Of course, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/28 "2009-04-27T16:05:59Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > But, as has been discussed in many John Varley and ST transporter “would you or would you not” threads, it’s not REALLY immortality. Exactly. I meant to make that point up-thread, but forgot about it. It’s more like making a copy of yourself everytime. It’s not really _you_ in there. It’s a carbon (ha, carbon) copy of you. Your perceived _I_ is dead and gone with your original body. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/29 "2009-04-27T16:14:52Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > I liked this ep overall - Eliza as the old rich bitch determined to solve her own murder was a fun premise, some nice twists and turns. One question, though - where was the handler when all of the action was going on? [fanwanking] In the episode with the killer nature guy, it seemed the van could track Echo’s vital signs, but it took an experienced person (Topher) to distinguish between happy adrenaline and fight/flight response. After riding King’s Ransom, Echo/Margret’s vital signs would have been up, and it’s entirely possible the new handler did not recognize the change to fight/flight response when the widower started banging the shovel on the stable doors. [/fanwanking] > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Eh - maybe, but I doubt it. How can he not know he’s hurting people? He flipped the switch on a desperate, struggling man who had to be bound and gagged to get him in the chair. Once this man was in the chair, Topher turned him into a mindless zombie. That’s pretty bad. Yes, but keep in mind that desperate, struggling man had been trying to kill Echo, and said he was going to kill Topher and Toper’s unhappy assistant as collateral damages. In Toper’s mind, it would be easy to understand that he was acting in self-defense, as well as in the defense of the Dollhouse. Topher loves his science. Like the young programmers in http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089886/"]Real Genius the science he loves is entirely separate from the people that are being hurt by it. I agree with Kaio that Topher is immature to the pointed of stunted in his ethical development. > [@Kaio](#): > > As for why they don’t offer immortality – aside from the severe inconvenience of having a new body/identity every month… Remember Dewitt tell Roger/Victor that she used to work for a company that made organs from stem cells? I think the Dollhouse is working towards imprinting old personalities on clones. A world where science is advanced enough to grow transplant organs is probably working on cloning technology. ---
**Author:** ![iftheresaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecae2f/32.png) [@iftheresaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iftheresaway)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/30 "2009-04-28T04:34:15Z")
This episode really had a quintessential “Joss” moment for me: I loved when Echo/Margaret is in the stables, and her son comes in and tells her he knows that she’s his mother. I just love that element of taking the usual fairly groan-inducing “plot twist”, acknowledging exactly what the audience is thinking, and then dumping the whole thing on its head. I actually just finished watching Firefly & Serenity for the first time, so it reminded me of another example of that “flipping”: In Serenity, when Anara is forced to call Mal and tell him to come for a visit, he immediately knows it’s a trap. They even lampshaded this with Kalie asking how he could know. Anyone else enjoy that? ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/31 "2009-04-28T14:16:01Z")
The thing I either didn’t get or missed was the explanation for her death. What was the stated cause of death? And how did either the son arrange to make it seem like an accident, or why wasn’t there a police investigation? ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/32 "2009-04-28T14:21:47Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > The thing I either didn’t get or missed was the explanation for her death. What was the stated cause of death? And how did either the son arrange to make it seem like an accident, or why wasn’t there a police investigation? My understanding is it was a drug used to dope horses and there is a second drug or chemical used to mask the first. ---
**Author:** ![Atrael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Atrael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atrael)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/33 "2009-04-28T15:04:41Z")
I also liked the FBI guy getting a taste of being a client and seeing the appeal. Knowing that no matter what he does, she’s going to stay with him. Talk about unleashing a darker part of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/34 "2009-04-29T02:01:33Z")
I didn’t understand the letter her son asked her to write and the letter she wrote instead. In the letters she is writing who her killer is and how he is going to kill her? So she just writesa letter and a new will and goes for a horse back ride? She doesn’t contact the police or tell her husband? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/35 "2009-04-29T02:26:09Z")
She couldn’t explain that she was an imprint on the doll. So she arranged to write a letter that would later be found (in her handwriting) that would detail her suspicions towards her husband, how and when he might kill her, etc. Then her son could “discover” this letter hidden away somewhere. It reopens the case and the police could figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/36 "2009-04-29T05:16:09Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I don’t quite understand why ‘Margaret’ had to die again. She had the money to set up a contract where her brain could have been scanned again to retain the current memories before being wiped, then in a month she could have been put back in the doll for a month, then repeat - indefinitely. It would feel as normal as going to sleep each night, and she could live forever. Or just left in a doll, forever. It’s not like the Dollhouse has any ethics, why _won’t_ they let someone live forever if the check clears? I also agree that whenever Dushku acts you can see her _acting_. It looks fake and artificial. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/37 "2009-04-29T18:47:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Or just left in a doll, forever. It’s not like the Dollhouse has any ethics, why _won’t_ they let someone live forever if the check clears? I think DeWitt does feel bound by the promises she has made. She certainly gave that impression in Needs (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=512899&highlight=Dollhouse"]old thread), but then Echo was threatening her with a gun, I think. Caroline/Echo’s contract is only for five years. Presumably, Margret could have bought the remainder of Echo’s time on a 24x7 basis, but at some point she’d have to be moved to a new body. I watched the ep again last night, and Topher’s storey line seemed even more sad on repeat. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/38 "2009-04-29T19:24:06Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Alllthought, he only gets to do it once a year (presumably on his birthday or the same day every year)… Ah. So it’s kinda like pon farr for geeks. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/39 "2009-04-29T23:28:31Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > Caroline/Echo’s contract is only for five years. Presumably, Margret could have bought the remainder of Echo’s time on a 24x7 basis, but at some point she’d have to be moved to a new body.. Sure for Echo, but how about the dudes in “the attic” or some other person? They could also just buy someones permission for life. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287/40 "2009-04-30T05:40:49Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Ah. So it’s kinda like pon farr for geeks. And the non-geek version of pon farr is… 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-april-24th/494287.md?page=3)