# Dollhouse Mar 27 2009: Echoes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 28, 2009, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052 "2009-03-28T01:29:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/21 "2009-03-29T06:28:05Z")
I finally saw my tape of the show. Not much to add, but: did anyone, anywhere, find “Alice’s” outfit remotely sexy, or even attractive? ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/22 "2009-03-29T15:58:24Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > I finally saw my tape of the show. Not much to add, but: did anyone, anywhere, find “Alice’s” outfit remotely sexy, or even attractive? Yes. But mostly from the waist down. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/23 "2009-03-29T19:50:17Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > The whole “foundry” bit was painfully obvious to anyone who even noticed a sewer cover. Eh? How many people do you know who notice sewer covers? 99% of the people I know don’t pay close attention to things under their feet, short of some compelling reason for the thing to be notable or extraordinary. > [@Idlewild](#): > > Foxtrot was mentioned in this episode in passing. I can’t remember the context, but we figured it was to clue anyone in who was still in the dark about the naming scheme. Topher blurted out that he messed up one of Foxtrot’s imprints and made him/her speak the wrong dialect of Chinese. > [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > I finally saw my tape of the show. Not much to add, but: did anyone, anywhere, find “Alice’s” outfit remotely sexy, or even attractive? Oh hells yes. The line of the skirt paired with highly textured white thigh-high stockings? _And_ mary jane heels? And a cute layered look with that little cardigan? Drool. I admit to a thing for the sexy schoolgirl look, though. Also of note: DeWitt said, “I believe in the work we’re funding,” in a context that made me think she most likely really means that. Taking her off my mental list of potential moles. Almost disappointed too, cuz I think it would have been great to see, but I expect Joss has something better planned. Given that the drug lowers inhibitions (i.e. it’s not likely to produce thoughts or behavior that aren’t really a part of that person’s make-up, deep down), it was kinda nice to see that Mr. Dominick felt guilty about trying to kill Echo. So he’s not a total asshole. 🙂 BTW, did we see who Dominick touched that drugged him? They made a point of showing Boyd touching the college student, Topher high-fiving November/Mellie, and then Topher grabbing DeWitt’s wrist (to demonstrate that maybe it passed by touch… way to think ahead, dude). But I don’t remember seeing who he touched. Also interesting to my inner geek – looks like the mind wipes work a lot like wiping a hard drive: the memories themselves are not erased, just the “pointer” that allow you to find and access them. Cool. So… where does Alpha fit in to all of this? ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/24 "2009-03-29T20:41:43Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Topher blurted out that he messed up one of Foxtrot’s imprints and made him/her speak the wrong dialect of Chinese. That was a _Firefly_ shoutout too. In “Out of Gas” the audible warning of engine trouble is in Cantonese when it’s supposed to be in Mandarin. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/25 "2009-03-29T21:08:49Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > That was a _Firefly_ shoutout too. In “Out of Gas” the audible warning of engine trouble is in Cantonese when it’s supposed to be in Mandarin. _laugh_ I never caught that. _Firefly_ had a translator on staff – how did that happen? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/26 "2009-03-29T21:35:05Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > _laugh_ I never caught that. _Firefly_ had a translator on staff – how did that happen? Oh, they didn’t take the language thing all _that_ seriously. Alan Tudyk has commented that his “Mandarin” lines were mostly just gibberish, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/27 "2009-03-30T02:41:36Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Oh, they didn’t take the language thing all _that_ seriously. Alan Tudyk has commented that his “Mandarin” lines were mostly just gibberish, for example. The translator gave at least one on-camera interview that I can recall on the DVD extras. Notwithstanding Alan Tudyk’s ability to pronounce Chinese. ---
**Author:** ![iftheresaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecae2f/32.png) [@iftheresaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iftheresaway)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/28 "2009-03-30T03:37:41Z")
Yes… this show… I want more. Granted, my tastes are not all that “pure” - I love Joss Whedon and will watch pretty much anything that is shown as a marathon. However, I think that it is significant that (despite the fact that I have to catch it on hulu) this is the first show I’ve followed in near-real-time since the first season of the O.C. (hey, I was in college). Even the Venture Brothers I was not able to make the commitment to, although we now have the 3rd season DVD and can catch up on what we missed. I loved all of the “high” dialogue; there was much giggling and high-fiving at my house. Also, I don’t know if Boyd was supposed to be affected yet, but I absolutely loved his line when he said to himself “Yeah. Really kept control of that situation.” ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/29 "2009-03-30T04:20:04Z")
I liked that when Echo and the student were in the tunnel she said something like “we follow this red pipe to the other end and then go up.” Then they walk two feet and they’re there. Unless I missed an edit or something. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/30 "2009-03-30T05:38:43Z")
I thought this episode was a bit weak. It was ambitious in concept and had a lot of nice little moments, but overall fell flat for me. I guess Joss thinks so too because he mentioned last week and next week as being the episodes to watch. I thought last week was the strongest episode so far so I’m looking forward to next week. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/31 "2009-03-30T06:03:24Z")
> [@iftheresaway](#): > > I loved all of the “high” dialogue; there was much giggling and high-fiving at my house. Also, I don’t know if Boyd was supposed to be affected yet, but I absolutely loved his line when he said to himself “Yeah. Really kept control of that situation.” I’m pretty sure Boyd was affected–hence the piano interlude when he was on the phone with Topher and… um, that very British lady whose name eludes me right now. It was rather curious that Boyd didn’t seem to be affected as significantly as the others, though, nor for as long–he seemed sober when he found Echo again. I don’t remember who might’ve touched him, now that I think of it–he was outside most or all of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/32 "2009-03-30T07:44:05Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > I’m pretty sure Boyd was affected–hence the piano interlude when he was on the phone with Topher and… um, that very British lady whose name eludes me right now. It was rather curious that Boyd didn’t seem to be affected as significantly as the others, though, nor for as long–he seemed sober when he found Echo again. I don’t remember who might’ve touched him, now that I think of it–he was outside most or all of the time. He went into gigglefits and didn’t try to run after Echo after noting that he’d totally lost control of the situation. YES he was high. He touched the “you’ve got mansions in your eyes” girl – she wanted to poke his eyes, and he batted her hand away with his hand. Topher also made a particular point at the beginning how drugs affect different people in different ways. So Sam and Boyd metabolize the drug fairly quickly and are sober first; DeWitt and Topher get really wacky, but still have some grip on reality; and mansions-in-your-eyes girl and I-hate-that-dog security guy are completely off in la-la-land. (And Dominick thinks his suit is soft like a kitty. I loved that bit. 😃 ) Who did Dominick touch? I don’t remember seeing that. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/33 "2009-03-30T12:28:44Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > Ah, Whedon dialogue, how I’ve missed you. ::Inserts plug for the comics series Buffy Season 8 which is out in a set of graphic novel / bound releases - and trust me, it is chock full of Whedony goodness:: I like this ep like I liked an average Buffy ep - on its own, better than most TV but for the series, kinda meh, but with bits of Joss-speak and a sense that it’s part of the Big Bad arc somehow, I am more than willing to take it all in. [hijack-ish] And yeah, Echo’s trampy schoolgirl outfit was a distraction - as a straight guy, I am not \*really \*complaining, but actually, I kinda am. My kids and I are moving through the Buffy DVD’s (2nd time for my son - we’re up to the end of Season 3 - the Mayor just gave Faith a glass of milk…) and my son asked me “Dad, why would Buffy dress that way (some totally tramp-tastic outfit) to slay vampires? Should she, you know, have gear or something?” Given Joss’ extremely vocal advocacy of women’s rights - I mean, jeez both Buffy and Dollhouse are based on premises to explore and challenge female stereotypes - the tartiness is dissonant. I am sure it is smartest to point to the networks as the motive, but still… (sorry for the hijack; I am _not_ a rabid feminist - or a rabid anything for that matter. But the pro-female basic mindset of Whedon material makes sense and I try to go with it, so it is jarring when something seems so out of step…) [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/34 "2009-03-30T12:55:49Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Who did Dominick touch? I don’t remember seeing that. I just went to the tape and FF real quickly through it. I didn’t see Dominic touch anyone (btw, I always thought that “Dominick” was his first name, but he’s apparently Laurence Dominic). He was in the ground zero lab while they were scoping the place out, so my guess is he touched a surface or got some airborne particles there. I’ve been a Reed Diamond fan since he played Detective Mike Kellerman on Homicide: Life on the Streets, so glad to see him get to do a bit of a change up in this episode. Maybe he’s the mole and his hard-ass thing is a cover up act? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/35 "2009-03-30T12:58:55Z")
Well she was dressed for another type of job. The whore type\* of job. She was meant to look good and smutty and she did. \*I know she’s not actually making that decision but all the same. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/36 "2009-03-30T13:44:39Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I like this ep like I liked an average Buffy ep - on its own, better than most TV but for the series, kinda meh, but with bits of Joss-speak and a sense that it’s part of the Big Bad arc somehow, I am more than willing to take it all in. I liked this episode too, but it was clearly a lesser version of Buffy’s “Halloween” or “Band Candy”. > [@WordMan](#): > > And yeah, Echo’s trampy schoolgirl outfit was a distraction - as a straight guy, I am not \*really \*complaining, but actually, I kinda am. My kids and I are moving through the Buffy DVD’s (2nd time for my son - we’re up to the end of Season 3 - the Mayor just gave Faith a glass of milk…) and my son asked me “Dad, why would Buffy dress that way (some totally tramp-tastic outfit) to slay vampires? Should she, you know, have gear or something?” > > Given Joss’ extremely vocal advocacy of women’s rights - I mean, jeez both Buffy and Dollhouse are based on premises to explore and challenge female stereotypes - the tartiness is dissonant. I am sure it is smartest to point to the networks as the motive, but still… This is explained a few times in the show with Buffy saying that she dresses the way she does to slay because she still wants to a) look good and b) blend in when going to and from the slayage sites. ---
**Author:** ![Offkenter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f08c70/32.png) [@Offkenter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Offkenter)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/37 "2009-03-30T14:41:47Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I liked this episode too, but it was clearly a lesser version of Buffy’s “Halloween” or “Band Candy”. > > This is explained a few times in the show with Buffy saying that she dresses the way she does to slay because she still wants to a) look good and b) blend in when going to and from the slayage sites. Her clothes also get a LOT more Slaying-sensible as the series goes on. I think she stops wearing miniskirts in season 2 or 3. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/38 "2009-03-30T15:35:20Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > ::Inserts plug for the comics series Buffy Season 8 which is out in a set of graphic novel / bound releases - and trust me, it is chock full of Whedony goodness:: > > I like this ep like I liked an average Buffy ep - on its own, better than most TV but for the series, kinda meh, but with bits of Joss-speak and a sense that it’s part of the Big Bad arc somehow, I am more than willing to take it all in. > > [hijack-ish] > And yeah, Echo’s trampy schoolgirl outfit was a distraction - as a straight guy, I am not \*really \*complaining, but actually, I kinda am. My kids and I are moving through the Buffy DVD’s (2nd time for my son - we’re up to the end of Season 3 - the Mayor just gave Faith a glass of milk…) and my son asked me “Dad, why would Buffy dress that way (some totally tramp-tastic outfit) to slay vampires? Should she, you know, have gear or something?” > > Given Joss’ extremely vocal advocacy of women’s rights - I mean, jeez both Buffy and Dollhouse are based on premises to explore and challenge female stereotypes - the tartiness is dissonant. I am sure it is smartest to point to the networks as the motive, but still… > > (sorry for the hijack; I am _not_ a rabid feminist - or a rabid anything for that matter. But the pro-female basic mindset of Whedon material makes sense and I try to go with it, so it is jarring when something seems so out of step…) > [/hijack] Your son apparently considers some of Buffy’s outfits impractical–you call them tarty & tramptastic. Did you add those words to his vocabulary? Buffy’s early miniskirt outfits looked cute to me, not “trampy”–but I’m a het female. She did dress more practically later on–after she left high school. And after Sarah Michelle Geller got more creative control; she’s a bit of a fashionista. This article from _Slayage_ goes into great detail on [The Aesthetics of Fashion in Buffy the Vampire Slayer](http://slayageonline.com/essays/slayage22/Clemons.htm). Echo’s outfit in the latest _Dollhouse_ looks like a variant of the Japanese “[Lolita](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita_fashion)” look. But sexier–probably per the “client’s” request. (I’m quite happy that guy ended up tied to the bed & abandoned. Surely one of his lackies arrived before he suffered anything worse than extreme embarrassment.) One variant described in the Wikipedia article is “Sweet Lolita”–even more innocent, with an _Alice in Wonderland_ subtext. Echo’s name for that gig? Alice! ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/39 "2009-03-30T15:41:01Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Maybe he’s the mole and his hard-ass thing is a cover up act? Doesn’t make any sense. Why would he have tried to kill Echo? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052/40 "2009-03-30T16:57:47Z")
> [@Xan](#): > > Doesn’t make any sense. Why would he have tried to kill Echo? I can’t think of any reason why the mole (who ever it is) would care about Echo in particular. I think Dominic tried to kill Echo because he really believed that she was about to go Alpha and kill everyone. He was as visibly frightened as the Big Security Man could be in episode where he first thought Echo might be having a composite event. If Dominic is the mole, I wonder what his motivation is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-mar-27-2009-echoes/491052.md?page=3)