# Dollhouse.......renewed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 15, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-renewed/496571 "2009-05-15T20:49:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-renewed/496571/21 "2009-05-16T18:48:11Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I think DVD sales and Hulu views of all of these shows are through the roof. Well Friday Night Lights has their guardian angel in DirecTV. You’re probably right about hulu and DVD. iTunes as well I bet. I’ve wondered idly a few times if Dollhouse wouldn’t fare better on cable – FX maybe? I don’t know. Part of me hopes that it means the networks are becoming more sophisticated in their approach, but that’s probably too optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-renewed/496571/22 "2009-05-16T20:26:26Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > You’re probably right about hulu and DVD. iTunes as well I bet. I’ve wondered idly a few times if Dollhouse wouldn’t fare better on cable – FX maybe? I don’t know. Part of me hopes that it means the networks are becoming more sophisticated in their approach, but that’s probably too optimistic. Well, the networks never really had data from internet and DVR sources before. All they had were Nielsen ratings, which were based on a small sample size of the population. From Hulu and DVRs they don’t have to use sample sizes and can figure out exactly how many people are watching the shows using these devices. Since Hulu is now apparently a [cash cow](http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/74ab11da-b415-11dd-8e35-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1), the fact that a show does well within its ranks will likely work in favor of renewal. That and Hulu’s profits are only set to increase as more and more viewers start watching shows online. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-renewed/496571/23 "2009-05-16T21:13:49Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Simplistic? What’s your definition of simple? The entire premise was that he had to be ‘good’ to redeem himself for his ‘bad’ past. > [@](#): > > Wesley basically lost Angel’s kid to a hell dimension and then Angel tries to kill him. He then became isolated and had frequent sex with an evil lawyer who he fought against for two seasons. Still in love with Fred, who abandoned him with Angel, he makes the Wolfram lawyer dress up like her while they fuck. Not sure how this relates to the moral aspects of anything. Just sounds like a way to have kinky sex. Not something I am absolutely opposed to, but 90210 is based around complex love entanglements too. > [@](#): > > Name a TV drama that gets more complicated than that? Ok, Dollhouse is more complicated, but there is very little else that’s more complicated. The Sopranos, The Shield, The Wire, Battlestar Galactica, Sleeper Cell, Lost, Kings (if it stays on course and doesn’t get cancelled), Deadwood, Heroes. I’m sorry to get down on something you like, but kinky sex doesn’t make up for a lack of moral nuance. I never could get into Angel or Buffy, the acting was terrible and the stories never grabbed me. I thought Joss Whedon levelled up with Firefly and again has levelled up with Dollhouse, though I liked Firefly better than I like Dollhouse. I didn’t see Firefly for a long time because I just wasn’t aware of anything Whedon did because I’d written him off. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-renewed/496571/24 "2009-05-16T21:16:38Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > There seems to be something of a trend this year of more marginal shows being renewed – Nathan Fillion’s Castle and Better Off Ted have also gotten the greenlight from ABC; Friday Night Lights from NBC, and possibly Chuck. > > I wonder what could be behind this new approach? Well for one thing networks were in the dark ages regarding how they measured their ratings. Nielsen is laughably obsolete. They had trouble projecting how much people watched on Hulu and via DVR, which is funny considering they could easily have REAL and not projected data on viewership based on viewer information that the provider could easily capture. They wouldn’t have to rely on the Nielsen statistical analysis. Kind of comical in a way. As they learn to measure their non-Push formats they will change how they adapt to ratings. \*\*Lakai \*\*beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-renewed/496571/25 "2009-05-16T22:45:10Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > The entire premise was that he had to be ‘good’ to redeem himself for his ‘bad’ past. > > Not sure how this relates to the moral aspects of anything. Just sounds like a way to have kinky sex. Not something I am absolutely opposed to, but 90210 is based around complex love entanglements too. The moral aspect is in whether he should be having kinky sex with the enemy. > [@](#): > > The Sopranos, The Shield, The Wire, Battlestar Galactica, Sleeper Cell, Lost, Kings (if it stays on course and doesn’t get cancelled), Deadwood, Heroes. > > I’m sorry to get down on something you like, but kinky sex doesn’t make up for a lack of moral nuance. I never could get into Angel or Buffy, the acting was terrible and the stories never grabbed me. I thought Joss Whedon levelled up with Firefly and again has levelled up with Dollhouse, though I liked Firefly better than I like Dollhouse. I didn’t see Firefly for a long time because I just wasn’t aware of anything Whedon did because I’d written him off. Fair enough. Looks like you want your shows to have moral conflicts that rival something like Battlestar Galactica. For that kind of conflict you would need flawed main characters, and Angel isn’t that kind of a show. I wouldn’t compare it to 90210, but I see what you are looking for. I would say that in 90210 the moral conflicts are fake and so are the characters. In Angel the moral conflicts are pretty real, but the characters usually end up making the correct, but unrealistic choices. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-renewed/496571/26 "2009-05-16T23:06:09Z")
As much as I love Buffy and Angel, and I absolutely do, I have to agree that the production quality and acting on Firefly and Dollhouse are better. They are more ‘mature’ shows in some ways – for one thing, they are the products of an older and wiser Whedon. I missed some of the traditional Whedon witticisms in the early eps of Dollhouse, but they seem to have returned, at least somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-renewed/496571/27 "2009-05-17T01:24:50Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > The moral aspect is in whether he should be having kinky sex with the enemy. I love when presented with that quandary. 😉 > [@](#): > > Fair enough. Looks like you want your shows to have moral conflicts that rival something like Battlestar Galactica. For that kind of conflict you would need flawed main characters, and Angel isn’t that kind of a show. I wouldn’t compare it to 90210, but I see what you are looking for. I do prefer stuff like BSG. Since you are being so calm and nice about me bashing your show I shall revoke calling it like 90210. 😉 It just never hooked me. > [@](#): > > I would say that in 90210 the moral conflicts are fake and so are the characters. In Angel the moral conflicts are pretty real, but the characters usually end up making the correct, but unrealistic choices. I am not sure what this means. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-renewed/496571/28 "2009-06-12T17:56:37Z")
[Link contains very slight spoilers](http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2009/06/joss-whedon-buffy-dollhouse-1.html?cnn=yes) Entertainment Weekly’s Popwatch talks to Joss Whedon about season 2 Dollhouse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-renewed/496571.md?page=1)