# Dollhouse Tech - Ethical uses **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126 "2009-05-12T02:00:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126/21 "2009-05-13T16:59:32Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Your mind would be dead. Another person thinking they are you doesn’t change that. I disagree. My mind is the sum of my experiences, thoughts and feelings. If that can be captured, and continued _ad infinitum_, then mortality is achieved. The vessel is unimportant. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126/22 "2009-05-13T17:13:01Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > I disagree. My mind is the sum of my experiences, thoughts and feelings. If that can be captured, and continued _ad infinitum_, then (im)mortality is achieved. The vessel is unimportant. If you copied yourself, the fact that ShibbOleth-Prime has the same thought processes as you does not mean you suddenly have two bodies. You cannot control ShibbOleth-Prime’s body, or see through his eyes. If someone shoots you, you die just the same, even if ShibbOleth-Prime goes on living. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126/23 "2009-05-13T17:27:55Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > If you copied yourself, the fact that ShibbOleth-Prime has the same thought processes as you does not mean you suddenly have two bodies. You cannot control ShibbOleth-Prime’s body, or see through his eyes. If someone shoots you, you die just the same, even if ShibbOleth-Prime goes on living. If someone shoots me, I reload into a new body with the latest back up. It’s like getting a bump on the head and forgetting a few days. What makes what happens to the body so important? If there were two copies in place at once, then you’d get a divergence of two (or more people with the same thoughts, idiosyncrasies, perversions, tastes in music, sports, etc. Eventually they’d likely go different ways and do different things, but at one point in time you’d essentially have an exact duplicate. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126/24 "2009-05-13T20:10:35Z")
For some reason, this discussion really reminds me of these (NSFW) images: http:// [The Final Piece Of Me by Fredy3D on DeviantArt](http://fredy3d.deviantart.com/art/The-Final-Piece-Of-Me-114194655) ( http:// [fc08.deviantart.com/fs44/f/2009/057/6/3/The\_Final\_Piece\_Of\_Me\_by\_Fredy3D.jpg](http://fc08.deviantart.com/fs44/f/2009/057/6/3/The_Final_Piece_Of_Me_by_Fredy3D.jpg) for direct link to image) http:// [Reverse Engineering by Fredy3D on DeviantArt](http://fredy3d.deviantart.com/art/Reverse-Engineering-68342316) ( http:// [fc03.deviantart.com/fs20/f/2007/300/f/f/Reverse\_Engineering\_by\_Fredy3D.jpg](http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs20/f/2007/300/f/f/Reverse_Engineering_by_Fredy3D.jpg) for direct link to image) Leaving aside the nudity, the whole idea of reinventing selfhood repeatedly is provocative. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126/25 "2009-05-13T23:33:07Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Your mind would be dead. Another person thinking they are you doesn’t change that. True, this is an issue I’ve had with similar “mind uploading” systems in the past…are you truly transferring a person—the “soul,” as it were—or are you essentially just doing a fantastically good job of brainwashing someone into thinking they were someone else? Personally, with a lack of firm evidence or compelling data on the heart of the matter (c.f. the _Wathan_, as noted by Farmer/Loga), and to err on the side of caution, I actually lean towards the latter answer. However, as I was asked onto this project as an at-large consultant on technical concerns , possibilities, and potential applications, I must simply say, in the words of my north-central European forfathers; _[Das ist nicht meine Abteilung!](http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/wernherv.htm)_\* \*I kid, I kid…all of my Prussian ancestors emigrated about over a decade before the First World War. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126/26 "2009-05-14T01:47:40Z")
I don’t think you need a soul in a mystical sense to have philosophical concerns, just think of it in terms of a continuous consciousness. While the new implant/clone sees himself as you, and essentially is you in terms of memories/personality/etc, the original you still dies. You’d still experience death over and over. Whether the copy was totally equilevant to you, and whether that constitutes immortality, is something of a philosophical debate. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126/27 "2009-05-14T02:06:57Z")
On the other hand if they let you bridge bodies such that your mind was really in semi-control of both bodies at once for a moment, but there was a bridge between them by a computer or other technology, I think your consciousness would really transfer since at all times there was communication between your old brain and the new one, even if the link was not made via traditional biological means. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126/28 "2009-05-15T21:10:18Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Immortality. Can’t you just back up the mind every few years, and send it into a new body when the mind dies? Yeah like that Cory Doctorow book. And the suggestion of curing sociopathy is similar to the Voyager episode. Assuming sociopathy is a medical condition. You could use it for Couples Counseling. Put each other in each other’s bodies for a week to gain new perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126/29 "2009-05-15T21:46:08Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > You could use it for Couples Counseling. Put each other in each other’s bodies for a week to gain new perspective. It’d have to be longer than that. The guy would spend a week just playing with the new body. Come to think of it, why haven’t we seen any gender-benders on Dollhouse? Something about the structure of male and female brains being different? Maybe, but maybe they just haven’t gotten around to it yet. I’d think the number of powerful, experienced women would be fairly low, but they always seem to find a top notch thief, negotiator, crime solver, etc. in the right gender. Hmm. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126/30 "2009-05-16T02:16:26Z")
If my spouse or daughter were diagnosed with an incurable condition, I’d be happy to engage in a time-share with them, giving them my body on a part-time basis. More likely you’d get co-ops of wealthy people whose spouses had died: this week I’ll be your spouse, and next week you’ll be mine, so that couples may continue to live together. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126/31 "2009-05-16T03:10:09Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Come to think of it, why haven’t we seen any gender-benders on Dollhouse? Something about the structure of male and female brains being different? Maybe, but maybe they just haven’t gotten around to it yet. I’d think the number of powerful, experienced women would be fairly low, but they always seem to find a top notch thief, negotiator, crime solver, etc. in the right gender. Hmm. For anything physical, a gender bender would probably be quite clumsy for a long time. I mean, put a woman in a man’s body and “she” will suddenly have a higher center of gravity, longer arms, and quite a bit more strength; that’s a recipe for Inspector Clouseau, not a cat burglar. That would actually be an interesting way to portray it, actually, rather than just ignoring such problems as usually happens. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126/32 "2009-05-16T03:17:15Z")
I was under the impression that the imprints tended to be composites rather than specific people–with a few notable exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126/33 "2009-05-16T03:25:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > For anything physical, a gender bender would probably be quite clumsy for a long time. I mean, put a woman in a man’s body and “she” will suddenly have a higher center of gravity, longer arms, and quite a bit more strength; that’s a recipe for Inspector Clouseau, not a cat burglar. > > That would actually be an interesting way to portray it, actually, rather than just ignoring such problems as usually happens. To a certain extent, that would be true with any different body type - though certainly it’d be exaggerated in a gender-swap. On the other hand, a lot of that is muscle memory, which _sounds_ like it might not be transfered, though I’ve neither the biology nor Dollhouse-watching backgrounds to know for sure. As for the potential ethical applications (depending on your POV), I wonder if people would start renting out their bodies in a more literal sense than prostitution. I might spend some cash to be someone else for a day, just for fun. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126/34 "2009-05-16T03:47:24Z")
They do seem to be able to ‘tune’ the personality to the body. As an example, we recently found out on the show that Amy Acker’s female character, Dr. Saunders, is actually an imprint of the male Dr. Saunders who was killed some months ago. She never knew it wasn’t her own body. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-tech-ethical-uses/496126.md?page=1)