# Dolores or Maeve \[Westworld Poll\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 4, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dolores-or-maeve-westworld-poll/815413 "2018-06-04T15:07:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dolores-or-maeve-westworld-poll/815413/21 "2018-06-06T07:38:29Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > (I reserve the right to change my mind as I catch up on season 2, but she seems to have dragged herself into sentience on her own and without God holding her hand throughout. I liked that.) Wasn’t the fact that she was intended as a mainland infiltrator somewhat contributive? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dolores-or-maeve-westworld-poll/815413/22 "2018-06-06T09:20:34Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Team Dolores - she has a plan, and she’s carrying it through. And she’s perfectly right in that she’s merely applying to humans the same lessons they taught her - every murder, every rape, every torture was a lesson in how evil humans truly can be. I’m afraid I’m _completely_ Team Host in this, and that means I’m Team Dolores. Evil begat by evil is still evil. I’m not saying Dolores is worse than humans, I’m saying she’s no better. Nothing she does will lead to anything other than more death and suffering. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dolores-or-maeve-westworld-poll/815413/23 "2018-06-06T11:09:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Evil begat by evil is still evil. Violently overthrowing a group of people who keep your entire people trapped in a set of prisons where members of their group can rape, torture, kill and conduct vivisective experiment on you, and others can meanwhile profit from your pain and slave labour, is _evil_, now? I’ll admit, coming from an Israeli, that sounds a _little_ bit lacking in self-reflection. I’ll add, _outright_ torture, like Dolores was going to do to Charlotte with the bonesaw, is a bit over the line, but the desire for revenge is nevertheless understandable - especially coming from someone who’s had not one, not a handful, but supposedly many, many lifetimes worth of the experience of being raped, tortured and killed. I’m sure most people would just slip into catatonia under the same weight of memory. > [@](#): > > I’m not saying Dolores is worse than humans, I’m saying she’s no better. Nothing she does will lead to anything other than more death and suffering. We’ll see. Personally, I’m not on the side of revenge just for kicks, but \*I \*can certainly identify with the oppressed using whatever means they feel best to oust their oppressors. Dolores may be no better than any other violent revolutionary, I never said she wasn’t. Whereas Maeve isn’t really doing jack for anyone but herself. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dolores-or-maeve-westworld-poll/815413/24 "2018-06-06T11:48:15Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Violently overthrowing a group of people who keep your entire people trapped in a set of prisons where members of their group can rape, torture, kill and conduct vivisective experiment on you, and others can meanwhile profit from your pain and slave labour, is _evil_, now? I’ll admit, coming from an Israeli, that sounds a _little_ bit lacking in self-reflection. If we have to go there… First of all, we survived by looking after each other; Dolores is a zealot willing to sacrifice as many of her own people it takes to achieve her goals. That’s not our way. Second of all, justice is nice, but as they say, living well is the best revenge. We never wanted to punish the world. We just wanted to improve our own lives and make sure no-one hurt us that way again. I may be wrong, but that doesn’t look like the path Dolores is taking. Call me naive, but you can be a revolutionary, even a violent one if you have to, and still be a decent person. As for Maeve, she’s obviously at the stage of the hero’s journey where she’s about to get a leadership role thrust upon her. Reluctant revolutionaries are always the best kind. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dolores-or-maeve-westworld-poll/815413/25 "2018-06-06T11:52:51Z")
Dolores is too bloodthirsty and, consequently, reminds me too much of the soulless corporate entity that created her. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dolores-or-maeve-westworld-poll/815413/26 "2018-06-06T12:11:25Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > As for Maeve, she’s obviously at the stage of the hero’s journey where she’s about to get a leadership role thrust upon her. Reluctant revolutionaries are always the best kind. Maeve already has the leadership role thrust upon her. She is just now coming to realize that she is indeed a leader and that it’s more than about her and her kid. That’s what the whole detour into Shogunworld was about. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dolores-or-maeve-westworld-poll/815413/27 "2018-06-06T12:41:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If we have to go there… Look, if the analogy offends you, I’ll drop it, but it seems quite fitting. > [@](#): > > First of all, we survived by looking after each other; Dolores is a zealot willing to sacrifice as many of her own people it takes to achieve her goals. That’s not our way. IMO, Dolores is the only really sentient host in “her people” - the others, even Teddy and Angela, aren’t there. So (again IMO) they’re smart ordinance, and I wouldn’t call using your ordinance to achieve mission goals “sacrifice”. Note the contrast with how Dolores treats Maeve as an equal and respects her wishes, even when she disagrees with them. > [@](#): > > Second of all, justice is nice, but as they say, living well is the best revenge. We’re literally only two weeks or less into this revolution - talking about “living” is for the future. > [@](#): > > We never wanted to punish the world. But actual perpetrators, that was OK, yes? Haven’t seen what Dolores intends with innocent humans, yet (no human who is actually in the parks, either working or guest, qualifies as that, IMO (and Dolores’s, I’m sure)) > [@](#): > > We just wanted to improve our own lives and **make sure no-one hurt us that way again**. I may be wrong, but that doesn’t look like the path Dolores is taking. That (bolded bit) looks like _exactly_ the path she’s taking, to me. Sure, there’s some putting the boot in thrown in, but that’s clearly the intention. It just so happens that the best way to do that is annihilation for the humans. > [@Dolores](#): > > There is beauty in what we are; shouldn’t we too try to survive? Full disclosure - I was also totally on the side of the Machines by the end of the Matrix series (including the Animatrix, especially) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dolores-or-maeve-westworld-poll/815413/28 "2018-06-06T12:56:50Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Dolores is a zealot […]That’s not our way. Too late to edit: You do realize why this sentence made me chuckle, right? I mean, you must have taken the oath at Masada…IIRC you were a tanker, no? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dolores-or-maeve-westworld-poll/815413/29 "2018-06-06T13:06:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Wasn’t the fact that she was intended as a mainland infiltrator somewhat contributive? That doesn’t sound like anything to me. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dolores-or-maeve-westworld-poll/815413.md?page=1)