# Domestic air & road travel in Europe **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045 "2010-02-07T17:45:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/21 "2010-02-08T12:44:51Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Can the discount airlines actually make money doing this, or are they just loss-leader affiliates of more established carriers? These discount airlines are entirely independent, and stand (or fall) on their ability to make a profit. Generally they add on a pile of additional costs to the cheap fare - airport tax, luggage check in fees (to encourage hand luggage only), check-in desk fees (vs internet check-in), forced check-in with non-EU passport (bastards), fat-tax and pay-per-piss (seriously suggested by the Ryan-Air CEO). We have booked a few £1 fares - usually costs about £30-50 return per person to somewhere like Edinburgh or Dublin at odd times (Thurs evening to early Sunday morning) from a regional airport - which does take some getting to. Still, compared to rail it can be hard to fault if you don’t live in a city with a local public transport network. But buses are making a comeback, too - the Greyhound to London from Southampton/Portsmouth is really cheap and compares well to the train - if you can prebook you can get a real cheap (and not too slow) trip with similar access. Si ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/22 "2010-02-08T12:46:46Z")
> [@Dahu](#): > > Just checked what it would cost to go from Manchester to London tomorrow morning at 8am, returning at 6pm. Distance is 200 miles, journey time 2h 10m, cost is £262 return (about $400). Ok, I’m keeping in mind that this is a last-minute/walk-in price in peak time, but doing the exact same thing in the Netherlands - that is walk up to the station at 8 in the morning, buy a ticket and get on the first train from Groningen to Maastrict via Utrecht which is a little under 200 miles actual travel by my estimation: Journey time 4 hours - not a very quick route, this. Anyway: € 44,60 ~~$60 for a return ticket, 2nd class, or € 75,80~~ $102 1st class. If you’ve got a reduction card and you don’t mind leaving an hour later, it’s only € 26,80 ~~ $36 for a 2nd class return ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/23 "2010-02-08T12:47:16Z")
> [@nudgenudge](#): > > If you’re buying a ticket for tomorrow morning, that’s basically walk-up prices at peak time, and very expensive. I won’t pretend that it is an economical mode of travel at the best of times, but it is is significantly cheaper if you book in advance and don’t travel in rush hours. That’s true. I have bought some advanced tickets from Newark to Leeds and it comes out at £17 return. We have just returned from a trip to Lille, in northern France, and the tickets from Newark to Lille, via Eurostar were £75 return . That’s city-centre to city-centre in three and a half hours. Much better than air travel. ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/24 "2010-02-08T12:50:44Z")
> [@nudgenudge](#): > > If you’re buying a ticket for tomorrow morning, that’s basically walk-up prices at peak time, and very expensive. I won’t pretend that it is an economical mode of travel at the best of times, but it is is significantly cheaper if you book in advance and don’t travel in rush hours. I went from Farnborough to Manchester via London and back a couple weeks ago. I traveled up on a Friday after 10:00am and back on a Sunday. I booked about a month in advance and the total cost was about £40. If I’m going to Newcastle or anywhere further north I’ll fly otherwise I’ll take the train. I’ll only drive more than 100 miles if I need to carry something too awkward to get on the train. ---
**Author:** ![Lo-Slung\_Denim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f6c823/32.png) [@Lo-Slung\_Denim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lo-Slung_Denim)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/25 "2010-02-08T12:57:36Z")
If I travel anywhere in the UK, it’ll be by train. I don’t own a car. I get the impression car ownership is the norm in the US but here not so much. I don’t like hiring cars either; trains tend to be cheaper and easier. I would prefer train travel to anywhere outside of the UK too, while I like airports and flying, I just like trains 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/26 "2010-02-08T13:07:18Z")
Of late I have been taking the Eurostar whenever I go to Paris or Brussells. To fly to Brussells (hypothetically, carrying 1 piece of check-in luggage): Home - Heathrow (coach): 1.5 hrs Advance check-in and security: 1.5 hours (to be safe) Flight time: ~1.5 hrs Taxiing, disembarkation, immigration, bag retrieval: 1 hr Transport to city: 1 hr Total: 6 hrs The same journey on Eurostar: Train - London: 1 hr Tube - St. Pancras: 0.5 hr Advance check-in, immigration and security: 0.5 hrs Train ride: 2.5 hrs Total: 4.5 hrs Since you arrive in the middle of the city, and already have your bags with you, the last bit is totally negated. As a rule of thumb, the Eurostar is about twice the price of the really cheap airlines, but it takes less time and is a much more pleasant experience. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/27 "2010-02-08T13:22:28Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Is there much domestic air travel done in Europe, or is taking a train more common? > > I found [this map](http://sites.google.com/site/cxnets/2km_cloud_free.jpg) of world airports (from [this site](http://sites.google.com/site/cxnets/research222222)) and it seems like Europe is just as densely populated with airports as the US is. There’s a lot of airports (and budget airlines) because flying is often preferred for international travel - remembering that we have a high concentration of different countries within Europe. > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > My exposure to European travel is 100% based on television and movies, but it seems as though it’s much more common to take a train to another city within your country than to hop on a plane. Well, distances between cities in one country is usually much less than in the States, so taking a train is much faster than getting to the airport, getting through security, collecting your bags, getting into the city centre from the airport, etc. > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Furthermore, do people in Europe take trains more often than driving? Is it easier to, say, take a train from Manchester to London than it is to drive? It’s really easy to drive from Cleveland to Pittsburgh (50 miles less than the distance from Manchester to London), but on TV shows and in movies set in the UK that journey is usually done via train. The train network across Europe is much more comprehensive than the US, our roads are much more congested, fuel is much more expensive and parking in cities much more of a pain, so train travel is often easier, faster and less stressful, although not necessarily cheaper, especially in the UK. As an example, I often travel from London to other cities 100-200 miles away. As speed rather than cost is usually the deciding factor in business travel, if the train journey is less than 3 hours, then train usually wins over car or air travel. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/28 "2010-02-08T13:48:47Z")
I should mention I once travelled from Oxford to Glasgow by train on business. We took the train because two of my coworkers are scared of flying (ironically it was this very service that had a derailed Pendolino a few months later where one person died). The total travel time to my hotel in Glasgow would have been 5 hours by plane, whereas with the train it was 6 hours, and a hell of a lot less stressful. However, the cost of the ticket would have been extortionate because we were in the UK. Thankfully I wasn’t paying. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/29 "2010-02-08T15:40:38Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > However, the cost of the ticket would have been extortionate because we were in the UK. Thankfully I wasn’t paying. A friend and I travelled from Edinburgh to London, with a stopover in York, a couple of years ago and if our tickets cost us more than £20 (if my memory serves me right) each it wasn’t much. ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/30 "2010-02-08T19:14:18Z")
It’s the last minute travellers that get screwed. A single from Farnborough to Edinburgh tomorrow is £111. One month from tomorrow it’s £53. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/31 "2010-02-08T19:28:02Z")
> [@kferr](#): > > It’s the last minute travellers that get screwed. A single from Farnborough to Edinburgh tomorrow is £111. One month from tomorrow it’s £53. Train travel is getting like air-travel. The earlier you book, the cheaper the fare. ---
**Author:** ![Bbusyb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bbusyb/32/4580_2.png) [@Bbusyb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bbusyb)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/32 "2010-02-08T19:31:04Z")
Another Comment from the UK Yes while Train Fare’s are generally High, those fare are usually walk on or last minute fares. If you are able to book in advance, you can usually gate pretty cheap fares. For example, On the rout I used to take pretty regularly, between Nottingham and London, the Walk in fare was I believe £44 One way, £46 Return Off peak. If I booked a week or two in advance I could often get fares of £6-8 One way, or First class £10-12 one way . As I don’t have a car, My options are usually limited, though due to reasonably good public transport system there has never been much pressure to get one. While it might make it a little more convinent, its not worth the expense or effort involved.Add in the ridiculous Parking charges in London and other cities, its often not worth the few buck you may save. Personally even When I had the choice, of renting a car or getting a ride I’ve usually preferred to go by train if possible as you are usually comfortable, you can move around and get a lot of work done which you would be able to do so in the car. I’ve not had much chance to travel to europe, though a lot of people I know prefer to travel via train to avoid the hassle of Air travel. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/33 "2010-02-08T20:48:40Z")
> [@Rayne\_Man](#): > > Train travel is getting like air-travel. The earlier you book, the cheaper the fare. Actually that’s not usually true. For most connections in Europe, especially domestic, there’s a set price that never changes. E.g. the prices that \*\*Superfluous \*\* quotes above are always going to be that, whether you buy the ticket five minutes or five months before boarding. Note that for most of these connections, you don’t reserve a seat, you don’t even buy a ticket for a specific connection. You’re ticket is just going to give you the right to be transported from A to B (and back, possibly) on a given day. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/34 "2010-02-08T21:28:28Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Actually that’s not usually true. For most connections in Europe, especially domestic, there’s a set price that never changes. E.g. the prices that \*\*Superfluous \*\* quotes above are always going to be that, whether you buy the ticket five minutes or five months before boarding. Note that for most of these connections, you don’t reserve a seat, you don’t even buy a ticket for a specific connection. You’re ticket is just going to give you the right to be transported from A to B (and back, possibly) on a given day. Well, there’s a few high-speed connections that are significantly higher priced here in the NL - specifically, there’s now a high-speed connection from Amsterdam to Paris which is almost twice the price of a regular ticket for domestic tickets and takes 20 minutes off the regular time of 1 hour from Amsterdam to Rotterdam. There are special offers on that route sometimes, though I don’t know if you can get an “early reservation” reduction. But for regular routes without monthly or yearly subscriptions, there are only 2 main prices: full price (all the time) or reduced (40% off after 9 am, and you need a ~ 45 euro reduction card which is valid for a year - well worth it if you plan on doing a few “long-distance” train travels in the Netherlands, and you can take 3 more people on 1 reduction card). ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045/35 "2010-02-09T00:25:08Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Actually that’s not usually true. For most connections in Europe, especially domestic, there’s a set price that never changes. It is, sadly, very true in the UK: the result of privatisation. Most of continental Europe I guess is somewhat different. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-air-road-travel-in-europe/528045.md?page=1)