Domestic Partners

Benefits that a legal married couple have that unmarried couples, both homosexual and heterosexual, do not have are many and varied (can’t remember if it was 107 or 1007), and were tabulated by the General Accounting Office (or whatever the US beancounting office is called). There is tangible, measurable discrimination going on.

Moreover, it benefits a society when its people are treated equally - morally, socially, legally and otherwise. IMHO, of course.

Bottom line: I say let Vermont or whoever come up with the domestic partnership - in the end, I believe the concept of DP’s vs. marriages will come before the Supreme Court, and DP’s will be struck down, since “seperate but equal” has already been dissed as unconstitutional back when schools were integrated (and to hell with DOMA and all its little siblings).

Alan

“My $0.02.”


Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you.

Okay.Update.Its in the paper.They lost.No benefits for domestic partners.5-3 I believe.

FYI and following up Orangecakes, the 1/19/00 edition of the Plain Dealer in an article by Kevin Harter that the vote was 5-2 against extending benefits to unmarried domestic partners, members Skindell and Roth voting for it. Council President Seelie stated that it was his belief that this issue should not be addressed at the municipal level, that it was for the state and feds to determine, and that if the city passed the legislation it would expose itself to lengthy and expensive litigation. Council member Edward Fitzgerald said there was no consensus, and that people of good will and good faith have not come together on the issue. The newspaper also said, “What the council did agree on was that each had received hundreds of phone calls and letters, and the issue had brought forward a disturbing number of angry people, including residents and people outside the community.”

SIGH

I have so many friends who have been in long-term commitments, and they get nothing for it, but noooooooooooooooo, this isn’t discrimination! It’s saving the sanctity of marriage! Well, if their marriage is any indication, I’d take their commitments over the 50% divorce rate among hets any day.

Two friends of mine are very adamant that you are not to refer to them as being “married” - until they get the same rights, it’s not the same thing. So I refer to them as “the co-habitual hairy pair.” :slight_smile:

Thankfully my religion (Unitarian Universalism) permits services of union, and I plan a big ol’ wedding for me and my husband.

Esprix

“Of course, I need to meet him first…”


Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you.

and you wonder why anyone would vote against such a beuatiful union known as :

“the co-habitual hairy pair”

I laugh out loud.

-N

Newt, you sound like a troll here. And stop referring to your parents that way…

Actually I was honestly amused by the sound of that one. Wasnt Trolling just reading.

Thanks anyway Sweetcakes.

-N

You know, we could solve this whole mess by just throwing out “legal marriage” altogether. Have same-sex and opposite-sex couples draw up whatever contracts between themselves they want to, settle their disputes like any other contract dispute, and either get rid of all the laws treating married people differently from single people or else go through those laws and replace every occurence of “married” with “involved in an unbroken cohabitation contract” or something similarly worded.

In fact, come to think of it, if we DO decide to treat people differently under the law based on whether they are “domestic partners”, we shouldn’t be limiting “domestic partners” to couples. Why shouldn’t 3 or 4 people be allowed to live together in the equivalent of wedded bliss?

Opal enters the discussion late in the game:

I assume she also thinks that athiests should not be allowed to get married?

Maybe according to YOUR religion. However, the laws of this country are not to be based on the details of YOUR religion’s doctrine. Damn good thing, too.

Ok so I propose that if a hetero couple is past childbearing age, sterile, or there is a vasectomy or similar operation, that they should not be allowed to marry. Also, if htey are already married and have no children, divorce should be mandatory.

Can you explain to me how benefitting society is relevant at all? Does it benefit society to deny homosexuals legal marriage?

How about…oh… the right to have thier marriage legally recognized?



Teeming Millions: http://fathom.org/teemingmillions
“Meat flaps, yellow!” - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com

Well, because legal marriage isn’t allowed, and those benefits of marriage are therefore not inherently granted, many long-term same-sex couples are jumping through legal hoops to do just that - legal documents stating that one partner can visit the other, power of attorney over life decisions, property contracts in case of “divorce,” etc. Awful lot of work for what is automatically given when the judge signs that little piece of paper.

Although I agree (I know many alternative families that are working just fine and doing no one any harm), this is unfortunately an argument used against same-sex marriages - “If we allow men to marry, then what next - adults and children? Women and dogs? Autonomous collectives?” And let’s not forget a post from the beginning of this thread about marrying lawnmowers…

Esprix


Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you.

I dunno - that separation of church and state thing is ignored far too often for my tastes…

(Actually, not OpalCat’s quote, but I wanted to respond to it anyway)

Here’s a benefit to society - its members are treated equally. How does this not benefit society?

Esprix


Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you.

I agree completely. The government has no place deciding (or influencing) who should and shouldn’t pair up. They should simply provide equal legal recourse for anyone who applies (i.e. domestic partnership contracts). Leave ‘marriage’ to churches and inidivudal beliefs.

By the by, don’t forget to check out Cecil’s very own column on this subject, plus the thread in the “comment on Cecil’s columns” section of the message board, and my very own rant in the Pit.

Esprix


Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you.

So Vermont had the second meeting to discuss same-sex unions here last night. In a blindinly fair move, they alternated speakers that were for and against it. This one older fellow (I assume, I was listening to the radio broadcast in my car) said that the original charter for the Republic of Vermont (before we became the 14th state) stipulated that we are one “protistant union under God,” and said “Aren’t you Catholics glad that got thrown out? The REASON it got thrown out is because religion shouldn’t exhist in state law. They realised that 2oo+ years ago, and we need to realise that now.”

Anyh00, I have to say it’s a grand time to be a Vermonter on the civil rights front!


One must have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing star. -Nietzche

thanks for bumping my name up to the top again! I need the publicity!

The latest update from Vermont, from PlanetOut, Thursday February 10 02:17 AM EST:

Of course, a debate over DP’s and SSM’s also continues in “Comments on Cecil’s Columns.”

Esprix


Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you.

Another update, this time from my Canadian neighbors up north, from PlanetOut News, Saturday February 12 03:12 AM EST:

In other news, some legislators are introducing a bill to impeach the Vermont Supreme Court for violating the separation of powers. I posted that news tidbit in the responses to Cecil’s column on gay marriages at http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000473.html

Interesting reading - slightly scary, slightly amusing…

Esprix


Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you.

Sorry to jump in here, guys, but I’ve found something interesting in my “Basic Facts About the United Nations” handbook for my Model U.N. class.

There is an article in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (I’m not sure which one - this only lists some of the articles, and does not number them) that says:

I do believe that the United States has signed this agreement, and I would be very suprised to hear that we haven’t, considering it was adopted over 50 years ago, on 10 December 1948.

Food for thought.


SanibelMan - My Homepage
“All right. Have it your own way. Road to hell paved with unbought stuffed dogs. Not my fault.”

And of course, “entitles” is “entitled”.

Yep, I confirmed it today - the United States ratified the above document also. So technically, the UN could be taking measures against us for not following this guideline…