# Domestic terrorists take aim at health care reform **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 24, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568 "2010-03-24T02:11:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/221 "2010-04-07T02:18:41Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Well here is a nutbar who had been charged with threatening to kill a Senator. It seems his threats can be directly tied to his dislike of health care reform: > > [Wash. man charged with threatening Sen. Murray](http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/04/06/general-us-murray-threats_7493119.html?boxes=financechannelAP) That’s odd. The guy issuing death threats has a legally registered gun and a concealed carry permit. I was under the impression that those sorts of people never committed crimes. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/222 "2010-04-07T03:14:37Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > With well over 50% of registered Republican primary voters being complete nutjobs > [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > [channeling my inner **Frank**] > > cite? > > [/ **Frank**] Sorry, the DSM-V isn’t scheduled to be released until 2013, but I have it on good authority that voting for a Republican is going to be listed as a symptom in half a dozen diagnoses, including Sociopathic Antisocial Disorder, Cognitive Dissonance, Bipolar Disorder, and clinical depression. the other two are Narcissistic Dementia and Batshit Crazy Syndrome, but those require that the patient have voted for Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann. 😃 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/223 "2010-04-07T14:47:35Z")
> [@C3](#): > > That’s odd. The guy issuing death threats has a legally registered gun and a concealed carry permit. I was under the impression that those sorts of people never committed crimes. Are rarely and never the same in your world? For that matter, was this hijack really necessary? _Really_? ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/224 "2010-04-07T15:30:03Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Are rarely and never the same in your world? For that matter, was this hijack really necessary? _Really_? Sorry for hijacking the thread about domestic terrorists with my comments about an accused domestic terrorist. :rolleyes: Or are we not allowed to mention the parts that are embarrassing to gun enthusiasts outside of designated gun threads? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/225 "2010-04-08T00:25:22Z")
> [@C3](#): > > Sorry for hijacking the thread about domestic terrorists with my comments about an accused domestic terrorist. :rolleyes: Or are we not allowed to mention the parts that are embarrassing to gun enthusiasts outside of designated gun threads? The gun control thing was just unnecessary. Are you happy to have blown down the strawman, though? What stats we have indicate CCW holders tend to commit serious crimes at or below the average rate. It’s not embarrassing, it just is. It’s not “never”, no one ever said so, so again, big whoop you caught a known bad apple and attacked the veracity of a statement no one on the dope makes. Good job! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/226 "2010-04-08T01:45:33Z")
[Accused man’s mom blames Fox News for behavior](http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/iteam&id=7374140) > [@](#): > > Gregory Giusti’s 83-year-old mother had not heard that her son had been arrested, but she told ABC7 he has a history of mental problems. She does not think he would be capable of carrying out the threat; he has never owned a gun, and she blames Fox News for getting her son worked up. Oh, yes: [FBI arrests Calif man for alleged Pelosi threats](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hzaRXQdcub1UIBXRbYBYQAayAaQAD9EUHV580) > [@](#): > > A California man angry about health care reform allegedly made threatening and harassing phone calls to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, including at least one call in which he got through and spoke to her directly, law enforcement officials said. > > Gregory Lee Giusti, 48, was arrested Wednesday at his San Francisco home… ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/227 "2010-04-08T03:20:41Z")
Well, I was going to let this thread drop but since it’s been bumped through a 'jack… **Kolga** , any thoughts on my post #213? I was answering your direct questions. Shall I assume you’re on board with my answer? ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/228 "2010-04-08T03:29:53Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Well, I was going to let this thread drop but since it’s been bumped through a 'jack… No it wasn’t. It was bumped because another right wing, gun fanatic nutcase was making death threats. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/229 "2010-04-08T03:33:16Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > **Kolga** , any thoughts on my post #213? I was answering your direct questions. Shall I assume you’re on board with my answer? You may not assume so. I appreciate your answers, however. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/230 "2010-04-08T04:26:32Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Accused man’s mom blames Fox News for behavior](http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/iteam&id=7374140) Oh, good grief. It wasn’t me, Fox made me do it. That will make for one hell of a legal defense :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/231 "2010-04-08T04:37:00Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Oh, good grief. It wasn’t me, Fox made me do it. That will make for one hell of a legal defense :rolleyes: Well, it IS the Twinkie of all news networks. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/232 "2010-04-08T09:58:31Z")
Guy threatening Pelosi lives in federally subsidized housing. [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/04/08/BAU71CR8R9.DTL](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/04/08/BAU71CR8R9.DTL) Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/233 "2010-04-08T20:25:31Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > You may not assume so. I appreciate your answers, however. No problem. My neverending mission, to educate the masses, continues. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/234 "2010-04-08T21:12:22Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Guy threatening Pelosi lives in federally subsidized housing. > [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/04/08/BAU71CR8R9.DTL](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/04/08/BAU71CR8R9.DTL) > Of course. Yep, and when he he got to court he started [crying](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/08/gregory-lee-giusti-man-ac_n_530474.html) like the little beeyotch that he is. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/235 "2010-04-08T21:14:58Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > No problem. My neverending mission, to educate the masses, continues. Respectfully, I don’t think spreading your subjective opinion around constitutes as educating the masses… ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/236 "2010-04-09T00:05:34Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > Respectfully, > > I don’t think spreading your subjective opinion around constitutes as educating the masses… Equally respectfully, if you take the time to read post 213, you’ll see it’s backed by fact and data. I understand that some might not be happy when those facts are at a right angle to one’s politics, but there you have it. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/237 "2010-04-09T00:38:47Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Yep, and when he he got to court he started [crying](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/08/gregory-lee-giusti-man-ac_n_530474.html) like the little beeyotch that he is. He just loves this country, so much. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/238 "2010-04-09T01:19:45Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Equally respectfully, if you take the time to read post 213, you’ll see it’s backed by fact and data. I understand that some might not be happy when those facts are at a right angle to one’s politics, but there you have it. Like most of your posts on this topic, the aforementioned Post 213 appears to be based on WaPo editorials, which are not facts. In fact, they often seem to make up facts, like: > [@](#): > > Obamacare, when stripped of its budgetary gimmicks – the unfunded $200 billion-plus “doctor fix,” the double counting of Medicare cuts, the 10-6 sleight-of-hand (counting 10 years of revenue and only six years of outflows) – is at minimum a $2 trillion new entitlement. Let’s see what the CBO actually says about the bill as passed, shall we? > [@](#): > > **CBO and JCT estimate that enacting both pieces of legislation—H.R. 3590 and the reconciliation proposal— would produce a net reduction in federal deficits of $138 billion over the 2010–2019 period as result of changes in direct spending and revenue** (see the top panel of Table 1 and subtitle A of title II on Table 5). Approximately $85 billion of that reduction would be on-budget; other effects related to Social Security revenues and spending as well as spending by the U.S. Postal Service are classified as off-budget. CBO has not completed an estimate of the potential impact of the legislation on discretionary spending, which would be subject to future appropriation action. > > \ > > Although CBO does not generally provide cost estimates beyond the 10-year budget projection period, certain Congressional rules require some information about the budgetary impact of legislation in subsequent decades, and many Members have requested CBO’s analyses of the long-term budgetary impact of broad changes in the nation’s health care and health insurance systems. Therefore, CBO has developed a rough outlook for the decade following the 2010-2019 period by grouping the elements of the legislation into broad categories and (together with the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation) assessing the rate at which the budgetary impact of each of those broad categories is likely to increase over time. **Our analysis indicates that H.R. 3590, as passed by the Senate, would reduce federal budget deficits over the ensuing decade relative to those projected under current law—with a total effect during that decade that is in a broad range between one-quarter percent and one-half percent of gross domestic product** (GDP). The imprecision of that calculation reflects the even greater degree of uncertainty that attends to it, compared with CBO’s 10-year budget estimates. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/239 "2010-04-09T01:51:01Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > [channeling my inner **Frank**] > > cite? > > [/ **Frank**] One may then assume that you have no interest in citing your posts on the SDMB that support liberal positions? Posts which, one would assume according to your statement, “In fact I have more liberal positions than conservative ones,” outnumber your posts supporting conservative positions? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568/240 "2010-04-09T01:54:30Z")
**RNATB** , I shouldn’t have to remind you that the CBO is required the score the bill based on the ‘garbage in-garbage out’ that it’s made of. In other words, it must assume that the preposterous assumptions in there will pan out (DocFix, Medicare Advantage savings, etc.) I like to quote editorials because they make the point in a more amusing way than the source data, but the data is all sourced. Which doesn’t even begin to address the unintended consequences I mentioned (there have been more since AT&T’s move in that post), the fact that all the easy deficit control moves have been taken up through this healthcare and us getting our budget back in order is now that much harder, etc. The main point is that the $500b in benefits cuts, even if we believe that they won’t be over-rided by Congress faster than you can say [SGR](http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/579117_2), and the $600b in tax increases, \*are now no longer available to reduce the deficit. \* It’s like a family, in debt up to their eyeballs, find $5000 in the street and decide to take a cruise, because, hey, we can pay for that cruise now. (Yes, I know that extending healthcare isn’t the same as a vacation, but you get my drift). Again, I know that the left doesn’t like the inconvienent truth that we simply cannot afford this, but we can’t. This, and other reasons, I believe, is why much of the public was against this bill. This is why the Democrats will pay for passing it this November. And to some extent, the logrolling and tricks used by the Dems to get it passed over the will of the people has sparked off a lot of the violence and threats on this emotional issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domestic-terrorists-take-aim-at-health-care-reform/533568.md?page=13)