# Domesticating large wild cats? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 4, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969 "2017-10-04T18:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/1 "2017-10-04T18:08:59Z")
I have been wondering if any researchers have done a Bobcat/Lynx/Cougar etc counterpart to the Russian fox domestication study conducted post-WWII. In this study, Russian geneticist Dmitry K. Belyaev led a selective breeding program in which, over several generations, he bred the most docile foxes with foxes with the same characteristics until a tamer variety of fox emerged. Additionally, throughout this process, physiological changes emerged, such a floppy ears and shorter snouts. It’s described in this BBC article: [BBC Earth | Home](http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160912-a-soviet-scientist-created-the-only-tame-foxes-in-the-world) Do any dopers know if a similar experiment was ever tried with such wild cats as lynx or bobcats or cougars? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/2 "2017-10-04T18:32:58Z")
Not exactly the same as domestication, but cheetahs can be tamed and trained to hunt in cooperation with humans. > [@](#): > > The cheetah in general shows no hostility toward human beings, probably due to its sociable nature. This might be a reason why the cheetah can be easily tamed, as it has been since antiquity. > **[Cheetah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheetah)** > > The cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus) is a large cat and the fastest land animal. It has a tawny to creamy white or pale buff fur that is marked with evenly spaced, solid black spots. The head is small and rounded, with a short snout and black tear-like facial streaks. It reaches 67–94 cm (26–37 in) at the shoulder, and the head-and-body length is between 1.1 and 1.5 m (3 ft 7 in and 4 ft 11 in). Adults weigh between 21 and 72 kg (46 and 159 lb). The cheetah is capable of running at 93 to 104 km/h... ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/3 "2017-10-04T19:04:11Z")
Even “tame” cheetahs can cause humans serious injury. Note how behavior of the pair [in this story](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/9250110/Cheetahs-behind-mauling-of-British-woman-in-South-Africa-had-history-of-tourist-attacks.html) is excused as their being “playful”. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/4 "2017-10-04T19:16:13Z")
Yea Tame isn’t equal to Domesticated. You can tame a wild squirrel and yea it will be friends with you kind of, but it is still wild and will have moments where it doesn’t feel like being friends. Now if you raise 7 sequential generations in captivity, they might get a little bit domesticated but it takes a long time to breed the wild out ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/5 "2017-10-04T19:29:00Z")
Yeah, I wouldn’t trust a strange cheetah. It seems to me they would only bond with one particular human, whoever trains them. I wouldn’t forget they are still wild animals and are unpredictable, whereas domesticated animals can bond with many humans and their nature can generally be predicted, and are even bred for peaceful interaction with humans. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/6 "2017-10-04T20:00:16Z")
An ordinary kitty cat will behave “playfully” like that too; many a cat owner has had reason to be glad house cats aren’t the size of cheetahs. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/7 "2017-10-04T20:03:08Z")
I have been around several domesticated bobcats all wild caught as babies and I had one myself as a kid. Mine was a bit food aggressive and not fully tamed down as I didn’t have him that long but all the adults I had been around were very docile and friendly, just acted like big cats and even got along well with the dogs. I understand they can be destructive in a house and need to be caged when nut supervised. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/8 "2017-10-04T20:10:28Z")
‘Nut’ supervised?? ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/9 "2017-10-04T20:11:49Z")
There’s a strong argument being made that even ‘domestic’ cats aren’t really truly domesticated. Kittens that are not socialized to be around humans before about 6 weeks old (really very young) are notably more aloof or even hostile or fearful of humans for their whole lives - much more so than dogs. That’s not to say they’ll do well living in the wild - they don’t generally - but to say that for every account you hear of a serval or a tiger or a cheetah ripping someone’s face off, there are hundreds of ‘domestic’ cat owners clutching bloody limbs or faces because their cat lost its shit on them and was just too small or too fat to do enough damage to require hospitalization or sensational news stories. As for breeding various wild cats down to ‘domesticate’ them, it is being done now. Google Savannah cat or Chausie cats for modern attempts using servals (savannah cats) or jungle cats (chausies). You’ll notice it takes about 5 generations removed from the wild ancestor before the resulting animal begins acting even somewhat like what we expect from a ‘domestic’ cat, and that’s with intense and unremitting socialization as kittens. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/10 "2017-10-04T20:28:53Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Even “tame” cheetahs can cause humans serious injury. So? Cats & dogs have been tamed & full domesticated for centuries, but they still cause ‘serious injury’ – even death. Dog bites kill 30-40 people per year, just in the USA. Dogs bite 4-5 million people per year, and send about 1/5th of them to the hospital. Cats only bite 1/10th as many, don’t kill anybody, and only 1/6th of them go to a hospital. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/11 "2017-10-04T21:20:25Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I have been around several domesticated bobcats… Tamed bobcats. There are no “domesticated” bobcats. It’s probably a lot easier to domesticate social animals, since they are already instinctively pack animals. Except for lions, the large wild cats are all mostly solitary. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/12 "2017-10-04T21:23:20Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > So? Cats & dogs have been tamed & full domesticated for centuries, but they still cause ‘serious injury’ – even death. I was responding to the statement that “The cheetah in general shows no hostility toward human beings”, not offering blanket immunity to cats and dogs. I had a guinea pig that on one occasion decided to resent my reaching into his cage, and lunged at me, inflicting a painful nip. He had personality, but was a _nasty_ little rodent. One’s odds definitely are far better with species that have long been domesticated. The couple I read about that raised a “tame” hyena to adulthood and were confident it was harmless - good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/13 "2017-10-04T21:56:12Z")
Just wanted to say that this was right above “Do waterbeds work?” and I’m thinking that no matter how tame your bobcat is, you probably shouldn’t let it on the waterbed. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/14 "2017-10-04T22:19:03Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Do any dopers know if a similar experiment was ever tried with such wild cats as lynx or bobcats or cougars? I have never heard of such an experiment. Since I keep up with various science alerts, I very probably would have heard of any experiment of this kind. Such an experiment would be highly unlikely due to the size, danger, and relative lack of commercial value for such animals. The foxes in the domestication experiment were of a breed that was already being farmed for their fur. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/15 "2017-10-04T22:49:59Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I have never heard of such an experiment. Since I keep up with various science alerts, I very probably would have heard of any experiment of this kind. > > Such an experiment would be highly unlikely due to the size, danger, and relative lack of commercial value for such animals. The foxes in the domestication experiment were of a breed that was already being farmed for their fur. There is a lady in AZ who supposedly raises and breeds Mountain cats from stock she captures in the wild. I kind of suspect they are ring tails and not cats at all. I have never heard of a mountain cat. I also suspect she is illegal. The guy telling me about her said they had long bushy tails. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/16 "2017-10-05T05:44:23Z")
Well, there is the Bengal cat (very expensive) that looks like an ocelot. The Bengal was bred from the Leopard cat, a wild cat, specifically to resemble a leopard while becoming domesticated. Lovely animals. Some of them really look like little leopards and are maybe the most expensive cats. Some have sold for over $20,000. They have been bred since the late 1800s. > **[Bengal Cat Personality: Five Things You Need to Know](https://kittentoob.com/bengal-cat-personality-five-things-need-know/)** > > Easily identified, thanks to their exotic and distinctive coat, Bengal cats are becoming increasingly popular in the United States. If you are considering Another is the Savannah, crossed from a Serval wild cat. I like the second photo on Wiki, that is a heck of a “Do not fuck with me” look: > **[Savannah cat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah_cat)** > > The Savannah is a breed of hybrid cat developed in the late 20th century from crossing a serval (Leptailurus serval) with a domestic cat (Felis catus). This hybridization typically produces large and lean offspring, with the Serval's characteristic large ears and markedly brown-spotted coats. F1 and F2 male Savannahs can be very large, and in 2016 an F2 male attained a world record for tallest cat at 48.4 centimetres (19.1 in). Show-eligible F4–F5 cats range from 5.0 to 8.2 kilograms (11 On Apr... Dennis ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/17 "2017-10-05T12:42:35Z")
The fox domestication experiment IIRC, too, specifically included selection of pups for aggressive characteristics - and breeding only the docile ones. Presumably deliberate and systematic selection accelerated a process that otherwise in pre-history took many more generations of eliminating animals that showed too much aggression or lack of cooperative behaviour. A “tamed” animal may be comfortable around humans, not usually defensive, territorial or assertive - but there’s no guarantee some random act won’t trigger an interesting reaction. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/18 "2017-10-05T19:54:07Z")
1 year ago I rescued a kitten about 3 weeks old from a park. This park has a long standing population of feral cats that goes back at least 50 or more years. I am certain that new cats are being introduced all the time but its not hard to imagine over 10 generations of feral breeding in a kitten. I bottle fed mine for about 3 weeks and then he seemed to go on to becoming a normal friendly cat. At about 9 months he started wandering a little more than usual and now at 1 year he won’t come in the house anymore most of the time. He prefers staying outside and we don’t even see him everyday anymore. Friendly but not big on being handled or petted. I suspect that the feral lineage is starting to display itself. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/19 "2017-10-05T20:24:05Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > The fox domestication experiment IIRC, too, specifically included selection of pups for aggressive characteristics - and breeding only the docile ones. Actually, they bred lineages from both the most-tamable and least-tamable individuals. The tamable ones led to the domesticated lineage, while the least tamable lineage inherited that behavior. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969/20 "2017-10-05T20:35:44Z")
What we call domesticated cats aren’t very different from their wild relatives, except for their size. The domesticated foxes changed significantly in the breeding program, including reduced adrenal glands which would mitigate a lot of dangerous ‘wild’ behavior. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/domesticating-large-wild-cats/797969.md?page=2)