# Don McLean Question: Prove Me Wrong, Please! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [July 30, 2001, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267 "2001-07-30T20:18:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/1 "2001-07-30T20:18:19Z")
Is _American Pie_ his _Citizen Kane_? I also liked _Vincent_ but has this very talented singer/composer done anything else that can top his early works? Yeah, I _know_ he wrote _Killing Me Softly_ but I want **more**!!! I just heard _Pie_ on the radio, and listened to it closely and every word he wrote and sang made sense to me. I want more thought-provoking music/poetry from this guy! thanks Quasi ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/2 "2001-07-30T20:59:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Quasimodem \* > \*\* Yeah, I _know_ he wrote _Killing Me Softly_ but I want **more**!!! > \*\* No, he didn’t. Two guys by the name of Fox and Gimbel wrote it. It’s _about_ listening to Don McLean sing “American Pie.” ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/3 "2001-07-31T01:12:13Z")
Those were indeed the musical high spots, so far as quality. Having most of his 70ish stuff, I can say with decent authority that it’s by pretty mediocre. Some of the other decent offerings were “The Legend of Andrew McCrew” and “Homeless Brother” from the “Homeless Brother” album. The only other song that I even remember (other than “And I Love You So,” not something to brag about) was “Empty Chairs.” ---
**Author:** ![pesch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pesch/32/4925_2.png) [@pesch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pesch)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/4 "2001-07-31T01:53:49Z")
Before you become to sad, remember that “Pie” had an impact on our culture like Etna might just have on the rest of Sicily. Joseph Heller was being interviewed one time, and the writer said he had never written anything as good as “Catch-22.” Heller’s riposte: “Who has?” And if “Pie” can survive a Madonna remake, we **know** it’s immortal! ---
**Author:** ![G.Nome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@G.Nome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.Nome)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/5 "2001-07-31T09:29:15Z")
Don McLean seems to fit into a category all of his own. I suppose you could call it a category of incredible unsustained success. He could be studied for insights into human creativity. Where does it come from? Why is it lost? And they all lose it. People were once thought to receive inspiration from the Gods until the Gods judged their behaviour as no longer worthy of their attentions. I read a better explanation recently in an interview with English singer-songwriter David Gray (Babylon). He said that in his opinion artists’ creativity was destroyed when their lives became too busy and uncomtemplative. He made it seem like all entertainers where complete loners until, somehow, they achieved success. I saw Don McLean in a concert hall in the 70s which had a sign outside saying “no cameras permitted”. I disobeyed this and took a photo or two during his performance with a flash. I took the film to a shop for developing but I never got it back - it got lost in the process. That was the only time that ever happened to me. Over the years I’ve wondered if it still exists somewhere and how exciting it would be to get it back. The photos were not only of Don McLean but of people who would now appear like extras from “Almost Famous”. It would be like going back in time. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/6 "2001-07-31T15:07:10Z")
When asked why his later songs lacked the bite of his earlier work, Bob Dylan replied, “It’s hard to be a bitter millionaire.” ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/7 "2001-07-31T16:32:13Z")
Here’s a new one. I’m moving this thread to Comments on Cecil’s Columns. Unca Cece wrote a pretty good article on the meaning of American Pie back in 1993. Don McLean himself wrote a letter on the topic to Unca Cece. You can read both here: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3\_398b.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_398b.html) ---
**Author:** ![Scotticher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Scotticher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scotticher)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/8 "2001-07-31T16:45:40Z")
Just in case anyone cares, which you most likely don’t, that column is the one that brought me here to join all you fine people. I did a search on the meaning of the more obscure lyrics in “American Pie” and one of the things Google pulled up was Cecil’s column. So now you know…maybe someday it’ll be question in “Trivial Pursuit,” so please try to retain this information! 🙂 Scotti ---
**Author:** ![ren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@ren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ren)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/9 "2001-07-31T17:02:15Z")
I thought “Vincent” was written by Paul Stookey, not McLean. Am I confused? (When am I not confused…) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/10 "2001-07-31T18:00:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Quasimodem \* > I just heard _Pie_ on the radio, and listened to it closely and every word he wrote and sang made sense to me. Does it still make sense now that you have recovered from your presumably mind-altered state? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/11 "2001-08-01T14:44:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > It’s _about_ listening to Don McLean sing “American Pie.” Any chance of a citation on that? The lyrics don’t support it, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/12 "2001-08-01T14:45:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > When asked why his later songs lacked the bite of his earlier work, Bob Dylan replied, “It’s hard to be a bitter millionaire.” And I pray God gives me the chance to steal that answer if I am ever asked why my later novels don’t have the same tone as my earlier ones. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jordi\_Pujol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/858c86/32.png) [@Jordi\_Pujol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jordi_Pujol)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/13 "2001-08-01T20:05:25Z")
Don McLean’s never going to reveal just what exactly what he meant to say in “American Pie”. If we knew the “why” of this anthem, I think we’d all get bored as hell with the song and sweep in under the rug. On another note, “American Pie” was an inevitability. Don McLean’s song I think represents one of the first successful attempts to really get at the “stuff” of the zeitgeist of the period from the early 1950’s to the early 1970’s. Before this song I can’t think of much of anybody that was openly asking, “Wow…is there a deeper wisdom or lesson beneath the kitschy, plastic surface of pop culture, of rock and roll? Can we seriously reflect on this and learn something meaningful?” In a sense, I think up until “American Pie” pop and folk musicians were pushing the envelope, searching desperately for novelty (explaining in part the plundering of traditional American and Far Eastern musical forms by everyone with a guitar and a contract, it seems), yet no one was looking at the address: there doesn’t seen to have been wholesale reflection upon the meaning and effect of their cultural recuperation. “American Pie” really I think was the first pop song to ask, or rather, to cause us to ask ourselves, “Does this plastic, superficial movement valiantly spearheaded by Buddy Holly and others really have a soul afterall?” ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/14 "2001-08-01T20:38:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KneadToKnow \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > > It’s _about_ listening to Don McLean sing “American Pie.” > > Any chance of a citation on that? The lyrics don’t support it, IMHO. \*\* [Here you go.](http://www.uwgb.edu/weidner/etcetera/etc_donmclean.html) (last paragraph) ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/15 "2001-08-01T20:57:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KneadToKnow \*\*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > > It’s _about_ listening to Don McLean sing “American Pie.” > > Any chance of a citation on that? The lyrics don’t support it, IMHO. \*\* According to [Flak Magazine](http://www.flakmag.com/features/best/music/killing.html) the inspiration was actually a different Don McLean song: > [@](#): > > Folk singer Lori Lieberman saw “American Pie” man Don McLean perform his plaintive divorce ballad “Empty Chairs” in concert, and the song she went on to compose was transformed by songwriters Charles Fox and Norman Gimbel and vocalist Roberta Flack into “Killing Me Softly With His Song,” which peaked at the top of the charts in February 1973. ---
**Author:** ![Beruang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@Beruang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beruang)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/16 "2001-08-02T04:15:39Z")
I actually consider “American Pie” to be the first punk anthem. While an earlier generation grew up with songs about peace, love and understanding, the first mega-hit of my formative years was about the death of love and music, and singing in the face of that absurd tragedy. I accept that I am likely alone in this opinion. But it’s my story, and I’m sticking to it. (Thanks for the link, by the way… I was wondering what this was doing here…) – Beruang ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/17 "2001-08-02T16:37:21Z")
Thanks, **Scarlett67**. FWIW, what I disagreed with was the assertion that “Killing Me Softly” was about “listening to Don McLean sing ‘American Pie’” but I think **whitetho** has beaten me to the punch on that one. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyCasino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@JohnnyCasino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyCasino)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2001, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/18 "2001-08-08T23:55:20Z")
Don McClean? Like they say, never overestimate the public, and apparently that even goes for the people that hang around Unkle Cece’s place. I forget where or when or who but a long-ago comment on Don McClean was “I’d rather hear a dog puke.” Sorry. Targets that easy are too hard to come by. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2001, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/19 "2001-08-09T00:46:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JohnnyCasino \* > I forget where or when or who … Sorry, that’s not good enough for the Straight Dope. We need a well-documented reference or a notarized affidavit. ---
**Author:** ![DrewG27](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DrewG27](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrewG27)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2001, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267/20 "2001-08-12T16:33:58Z")
Or your credit card number…😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mclean-question-prove-me-wrong-please/74267.md?page=2)