# Don McLean's "American Pie" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 14, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468 "2005-07-14T04:37:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dearabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/35a633/32.png) [@dearabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dearabby)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/1 "2005-07-14T04:37:24Z")
I have been trying to convince my boss that the reference in “American Pie’s”, the father, son, and the holy ghost… is JFK, RLK, and MLK…am I correct or what??? If I’m not, then “Trivial Pursuit, The Genius Edition” is wrong…please let me know… ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/2 "2005-07-14T04:41:52Z")
[The Master speaks.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_398b.html) ---
**Author:** ![Liz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/liz/32/17737_2.png) [@Liz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liz)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/3 "2005-07-14T04:42:34Z")
No one knows for sure except Don McLean, and [he ain’t tellin](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_398b.html). ---
**Author:** ![feppytweed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/feppytweed/32/4280_2.png) [@feppytweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/feppytweed)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/4 "2005-07-14T04:43:07Z")
NO, it was about a plane crash that killed The Big Bopper, Ritchie Valens, and Buddy Holly. That plane crash made that day, the third of February in 1959 the “day that music died”. ---
**Author:** ![feppytweed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/feppytweed/32/4280_2.png) [@feppytweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/feppytweed)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/5 "2005-07-14T04:43:17Z")
No, it was about a plane crash that killed The Big Bopper, Ritchie Valens, and Buddy Holly. That plane crash made that day, the third of February in 1959 the “day that music died”. ---
**Author:** ![Liz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/liz/32/17737_2.png) [@Liz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liz)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/6 "2005-07-14T04:44:55Z")
_tosses rocks at Alan_ Bah. I woulda got it first any other day! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![feppytweed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/feppytweed/32/4280_2.png) [@feppytweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/feppytweed)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/7 "2005-07-14T04:45:11Z")
Sorry about the double post. More info about this subject can be found [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_The_Music_Died) ---
**Author:** ![Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f19dbf/32.png) [@Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Only_Mostly_Dead)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/8 "2005-07-14T04:48:41Z")
Expect a move to Cafe Society or General Questions, and welcome to the board. [This site](http://www.levitt.co.uk/v6.html) (and [this one](http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~choh/donpie.htm)) posits it’s Holly, Valens, and Big Bopper. [This one](http://www.understandingamericanpie.com/vs6pg2.htm) (and similarly [this](http://www.rareexception.com/Garden/Pie.php)) is a mishmash of maybe the above three, maybe your three, maybe the Crickets, and maybe a literal nod to spirituality. What a mess. In other words, there’s probably not a definitive answer (even from Don himself). My money’s on Holly, Valens, and Big Bopper, since they are the underlying inspiration for the entire song. But the JFK, MLK, RLK guess is pretty reasonable too. On preview, I took too long to answer, and **Alan** gave us Uncle Cecil’s take on it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/9 "2005-07-14T13:51:34Z")
From [The AFU and Urban Legends Archive](http://tafkac.org/songs/american_pie_interpretations.html): > [@](#): > > And the three men I admire most > \*\*The Father Son and Holy Ghost \*\* > Holly, The Big Bopper, and Valens > – or – > Hank Williams, Presley and Holly > – or – > JFK, Martin Luther King, and Bobby Kennedy > – or – > or the Catholic aspects of the deity. > McLean had attended several Catholic schools. > > ```auto > > **They caught the last train for the coast** > Could be a reference to wacky California religions, or could just be a way of saying that they've left (or died -- western culture often uses "went west" as a synonym for dying). Or, perhaps this is a reference to the famous "God is Dead" headline in the New York Times. David Cromwell has suggested that this is an oblique reference to a line in Procol Harum's "Whiter Shade of Pale", but I'm not sure I buy that; for one thing, all of McLean's musical references are to much older "roots" rock and roll songs; and secondly, I think it's more likely that this line shows up in both songs simply because it's a common cultural metaphor. > > **The day the music died** > This tends to support the conjecture that the "three men" were Holly/Bopper/Valens, since this says that they left on the day the music died. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/10 "2005-07-14T14:12:41Z")
I don’t see how there can be much doubt about the main theme of the song. “The Day The Music Died” has got to be February 3rd, 1959 when the crash killed Holly, Valens and Jape Richardson (aka Big Bopper). Whether other lines of the tune refer to Dylan, JFK, Elvis etc. is known only to McLean, and he ain’t sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/11 "2005-07-14T14:25:52Z")
By the way, it’s the **Genus Edition** , not the “Genius Edition”, genius. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/12 "2005-07-14T14:44:14Z")
Some years ago Don McLean was interviewed (I think on a British talk show). He was asked staight up what American Pie meant. He replied that it meant that he never had to work again if he didn’t want to. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/13 "2005-07-14T14:57:30Z")
Just to be contrary, I once deconstructed American Pie as if it completely discussed politics rather than music. In my interpretation, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost fit in nicely with JFK, RFK and MLK. Just for gravy, the last train for the Coast was the funeral train that brought RFK back from California, and the Chevy on the levee was, of course, Ted Kennedy at Chappaquidick (I know, he was driving an Oldsmobile, but try to scan that in a lyric) However, I should point out that I am not Don McLean and I did the whole thing basically to show that someone could. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/14 "2005-07-14T15:40:50Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > and the Chevy on the levee was, of course, Ted Kennedy at Chappaquidick (I know, he was driving an Oldsmobile, but try to scan that in a lyric) Bye bye Miss American Pie Drove my Olds off the roads Told the lady ‘Goodbye’… Thank you! _takes a bow_ ---
**Author:** ![seosamh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@seosamh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seosamh)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/15 "2005-07-14T16:19:32Z")
I still want to know why the singer is disappointed when he finds the levee to be dry. Aren’t they supposed to be that way? (even taking into account the whole Mississippi Burning malarky). ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/16 "2005-07-14T17:02:03Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Bye bye Miss American Pie > Drove my Olds off the roads > Told the lady ‘Goodbye’… > > Thank you! _takes a bow_ Will you be here all week? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/17 "2005-07-14T17:21:10Z")
> [@seosamh](#): > > I still want to know why the singer is disappointed when he finds the levee to be dry. Aren’t they supposed to be that way? (even taking into account the whole Mississippi Burning malarky). Depends on the location. I spend some of my teenaged years a few houses from the Mississippi levee near New Orleans. That portion of the levee was always bone dry but I could walk a ways upriver to a spot where once could usually fish from the levee. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/18 "2005-07-14T18:16:50Z")
> [@dearabby](#): > > I have been trying to convince my boss that the reference in “American Pie’s”, the father, son, and the holy ghost… is JFK, RLK, and MLK…am I correct or what??? If I’m not, then “Trivial Pursuit, The Genius Edition” is wrong…please let me know… From what I understand, DM is pretty serious about his religion, and not ready to compare any mere mortals to God. The most likely explaination, therefore, is that he is literally referencing the Holy Trinity. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/19 "2005-07-14T18:30:33Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > From what I understand, DM is pretty serious about his religion, and not ready to compare any mere mortals to God. The most likely explaination, therefore, is that he is literally referencing the Holy Trinity. That is what I had thought…that it was a comment regarding a crisis of faith, that the Holy Trio let the plane crash, act of God and all that, and McLean is lamenting the moral/philosophical implication of such an act. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468/20 "2005-07-14T19:15:54Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > From what I understand, DM is pretty serious about his religion, and not ready to compare any mere mortals to God. The most likely explaination, therefore, is that he is literally referencing the Holy Trinity. And therefore it should be “the **F** ather, **S** on and **H** oly **G** host”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-mcleans-american-pie/312468.md?page=2)