# Don we now our \*bright\* apparel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 7, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388 "2011-12-07T17:30:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/81 "2011-12-10T00:49:27Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > “The ox and lamb kicked ass”? Pa-rum-pum-pum-pum, motherfuckers! > [@Baker](#): > > By the second week the Phelps clan had a sign just for us, naming us “The Sodomite Singers” Good times, good times. You know you’re doing something right when the Phelps make a sign just for you. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/82 "2011-12-10T01:03:15Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > On point, I wonder what that school does about “O come all ye faithful” which always got more snickers than gay apparel in my school. Why would it? That doesn’t make sense. Unless it’s the “come” part, in which case you’re at the stage where kids will laugh at anything. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/83 "2011-12-10T02:04:26Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > On point, I wonder what that school does about “O come all ye faithful” which always got more snickers than gay apparel in my school. Well, that’s an easy fix - just sing it in Latin: \*Adeste Fideles… \* I was in high school before I learned the English lyrics - my elementary school ( a progressive private school) always sang it in Latin. As to the OP… meh. The motivation it seems was not to censor a controversial word, but to avoid a word that cracks the little bastards up. According to _Up The Down Staircase_, teachers avoid the word “frigate” for similar reasons, so this is nothing new. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/84 "2011-12-10T02:12:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I have the DVD right here. If you doubt me, I will upload the particular song to youtube, but I wouldn’t do it for free. $100 to my favorite charity. Deal? Or I can go on disbelieving you for free. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/85 "2011-12-10T03:18:07Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Or I can go on disbelieving you for free. You can. Or you can put your money where your mouth is. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/86 "2011-12-10T03:30:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You can. Or you can put your money where your mouth is. This makes no sense. Why do I need to pay you money to prove that you aren’t making stuff up? Why would I even _consider_ giving you a hundred dollars? You, who I have made it plain I do not consider trustworthy? Is this some sort of Christmas prank I’ve never heard of? I give you a hundred dollars and you show me a video of Rick Astley singing Silent Night, only with the words changed to Silent night, homely night? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/87 "2011-12-10T03:32:11Z")
This is getting too personal and too silly. Both of you need to stop it. You can continue your discussion via private messages or in the Pit, but not here. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/88 "2011-12-10T03:33:27Z")
Yes sir. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/89 "2011-12-10T03:40:10Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > This makes no sense. Why do I need to pay you money to prove that you aren’t making stuff up? Why would I even _consider_ giving you a hundred dollars? You, who I have made it plain I do not consider trustworthy? > > Is this some sort of Christmas prank I’ve never heard of? I give you a hundred dollars and you show me a video of Rick Astley singing Silent Night, only with the words changed to Silent night, homely night? I am willing to post the video of the Maryland public elementary school’s “winter concert” for 2010 where 2nd graders’ choir stands on the stage and sings “We wish you a happy holiday”. If you asked nicely. But you didn’t. You implied I am a liar. So you don’t get it for free. And no, the sequence of events would be: you agree to the bet, I post the video, you recognize your mistake and pay up. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/90 "2011-12-10T03:59:00Z")
As you say, language changes. Other songs that need fixing: \*Have a yabba dabba doo time, we’ll have a bright old time I feel pretty, Oh, so pretty, I feel pretty and witty and bright! We’ll all feel bright when Johnny comes marching home.\* ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/91 "2011-12-10T03:59:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I am willing to post the video of the Maryland public elementary school’s “winter concert” for 2010 where 2nd graders’ choir stands on the stage and sings “We wish you a happy holiday”. If you asked nicely. But you didn’t. You implied I am a liar. So you don’t get it for free. And no, the sequence of events would be: you agree to the bet, I post the video, you recognize your mistake and pay up. See my previous mod note. If you don’t drop this, you’re getting a warning. ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/92 "2011-12-10T04:55:30Z")
The sniggering has prevented Bible translations from mentioning riding on an ass. NRSV mentioned only a wild ass, newer versions can’t even say that (or maybe its worse!) People can’t be stoned, they have to receive a stoning instead. Many changes of meaning in the KJV. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/93 "2011-12-10T05:07:07Z")
> [@svd678](#): > > The sniggering has prevented Bible translations from mentioning riding on an ass. NRSV mentioned only a wild ass, newer versions can’t even say that (or maybe its worse!) People can’t be stoned, they have to receive a stoning instead. Many changes of meaning in the KJV. Whoa! Now I’m wondering what Dylan meant when he said “Everybody must get stoned.” I had a girlfriend who sniggered at Joy To The World. “The Lord has come alright. Here’s his kid to prove it!” We were teenagers of the snarkiest kind. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_A.Robrin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sam_a.robrin/32/14497_2.png) [@Sam\_A.Robrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_A.Robrin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/94 "2011-12-10T06:55:27Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Why would it? That doesn’t make sense. Unless it’s the “come” part, in which case you’re at the stage where kids will laugh at anything. We used to change the pronunciation of “faithful” just a bit, to give it a more sibilant center… ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/95 "2011-12-10T17:58:03Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > As you say, language changes. Other songs that need fixing:[snip]\* > > I feel pretty, Oh, so pretty, I feel pretty and witty and bright! > \* Actually, that WAS the lyric in the original play, rhymed with “night” in the next phrase. When they made the movie, they moved the scene with this song to an earlier spot in the play, and rewrote the lyric to rhyme with “day”. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/96 "2011-12-10T19:29:19Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Actually, that WAS the lyric in the original play, rhymed with “night” in the next phrase. > > When they made the movie, they moved the scene with this song to an earlier spot in the play, and rewrote the lyric to rhyme with “day”. “I did not know that.” (Johnny Carson voice) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/97 "2011-12-10T19:40:49Z")
While we’re at it, shouldn’t it be “Frosty, the Winterized-American”? And what about “Rudolph, the Rosacea-Challenged Ungulate”? Put your outrage where it belongs, people! ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/98 "2011-12-11T14:47:26Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > The most troubling thought in this thread is that a teacher would believe that it would be completely impossible to think differently about a subject than they would. > > If I heard something that I disbelieved about a subject every day it would very much affect my perception of the those I heard it from not the subject itself. I don’t know what to think since that apparently is completely impossible yet from experience it has been the case. Well, aside from the literal every day thing; I’ve certainly lived in places where I am in complete disagreement with the prevailing thought on something and never changed my opinion on the subject. > > On point, I wonder what that school does about “O come all ye faithful” which always got more snickers than gay apparel in my school. What are you talking about? What do I ‘hear every day?’ The bit you quoted said that ‘If you hear every day that a sexuality is lame, it can’t help but affect your perception of that sexuality. It would be completely impossible.’ Are you saying that every day someone says to me that being told your sexuality is lame doesn’t affect your perception of it? I think I must be misunderstanding you, or you me, because that makes no sense. > [@Malthus](#): > > I suggested that “queer” might shed the last vestiges of negative meaning and move into its place. “Queer” is neither unwieldly nor formal, and has the benefit of being very inclusive. > > That’s a process already somewhat underway. When universities offer courses in “Queer theory”, you know the word isn’t used in a perjorative manner: > > [http://www2.uregina.ca/yourblog/?p=1583](http://www2.uregina.ca/yourblog/?p=1583) I HATE the word queer. I really loathe that this word is supposed to apply to me now. It has a specific meaning, too, different to gay: you can be queer without being gay, because it includes transgendered people and pretty much any unusual but consensual sexuality. (Snipping now, because I can’t be arsed responding line-by-line). Lame means slightly broken, not fully functioning, so it works for things as well as people. That is different. If someone refuses to change their language in front of me AFTER I’ve nicely asked them to, then they might just be an arsehole who thinks homophobia is completely irrelevant, but that’s not exactly someone I want to hang out with either. It’s not exactly asking much. If someone were to slip up and then say whoops, sorry, then that’d be fine too. This is not me standing over them and shouting at them, you know. I know what evolving language looks like. I dislike that our language is supposedly evolving to a point where being gay means being pathetic and the word that has long been used as a nice, short way of saying ‘homosexual’ is being stolen off us. That’s really shitty. I’m always surprised when intelligent people act like it’s fine or even a good thing. Of course, it’s not on the scale of beatings or homophobic laws or AIDS and so on, but it’s also much, much easier for someone to choose to omit one word from their personal vocabulary than it is for them to change all those big things. Thankfully, I think the word is becoming less common even as slang rather than passing into the mainstream. I won’t need to have this argument again in a couple of years’ time. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/99 "2011-12-11T15:15:55Z")
“Gay” hasn’t always been a “nice” way of saying “homosexual.” When I was growing up it was the opposite of nice. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388/100 "2011-12-11T15:43:32Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > As to the OP… meh. The motivation it seems was not to censor a controversial word, but to avoid a word that cracks the little bastards up. According to _Up The Down Staircase_, teachers avoid the word “frigate” for similar reasons, so this is nothing new. 😕 OK, that one completely confuses me. What could possibly be funny about _frigate_? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/don-we-now-our-bright-apparel/605388.md?page=6)