# Donaghy writes a NBA ref expose **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 30, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757 "2009-10-30T18:44:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/1 "2009-10-30T18:44:25Z")
> **[The Book The NBA Doesn't Want You To Read](https://deadspin.com/the-book-the-nba-doesnt-want-you-to-read-5392030)** > > We've obtained a copy of Tim Donaghy's book, Blowing the Whistle, which purports to expose the NBA's "culture of fraud" and which Random House was set to publish next month — until, a source says, the league threatened to sue. Like I have said in the past ,NBA refs suck. I have seen too many games that the reffing made no sense, unless they were carrying out a plan. Now Donaghy wrote a book while he was in prison. Are you basketball fans going to buy it? He implies the NBA would pressure refs to make series go longer to get more money for owners and greater exposure for the league. It sure looked like it was true. They picked and chose the teams and players they wanted to win. Some refs were involved in gambling . That means they would be able to set up games to make money for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/2 "2009-10-30T18:47:09Z")
[The Confessions Of An NBA Scorekeeper](http://deadspin.com/5345287/the-confessions-of-an-nba-scorekeeper?skyline=true&s=x) While we are at it. Here is an article by a basketball scorekeeper who say what a farce the stats they create are. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/3 "2009-10-30T19:06:21Z")
That second link is really interesting. And this coming from someone who could give a shit and a half about pro basketball ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/4 "2009-10-30T19:13:25Z")
I think NBA officiating is often terrible, but if Tim Donaghy told me that water is wet, I’d demand evidence. He has no credibility with me on any subject. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/5 "2009-10-30T20:20:33Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I think NBA officiating is often terrible, but if Tim Donaghy told me that water is wet, I’d demand evidence. Yeah. On some days, I’d replace ‘often’ up there with ‘usually’. But I don’t really think at this point there’s a conspiracy to favor particular _teams_, and would need some evidence beyond an ex-con’s uncorroborated stories. I do believe that the league has – maybe not always consciously or deliberately – encouraged referees to always give the benefit of the doubt to the biggest stars, and this has been taken up, sometimes enthusiastically, by the referees. I also believe that the league has cared more about quashing complaints about referees than about improving refereeing and getting calls correct, an attitude again enthusiastically shared by many of the referees. So there’s lots of reason to complain, and if someone came up with a recording of a league official bitching out a ref for giving too many fouls to LeBron or someone, I wouldn’t be surprised. But I would be surprised if the league ever explicitly told a ref to favor one team. (Though less surprised than if any other major league outside of Italy did it). ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/6 "2009-10-30T21:18:34Z")
Its very easy to point at that Sacramento/Lakers game six and say the fix is in, that was one of the worst hack jobs ever, all he is doing is confirming what a lot of people thought already so its very easy to believe him. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/7 "2009-10-30T21:39:31Z")
Donaghy is a somewhat untrustworthy, in the same way sleeping in your own vomit after a night of drinking is somewhat unpleasant. He’s a crook with a gambling problem who has been trying to turn his crimes into a big payday ever since he got caught. (And since he’s out of work and going through a divorce, he’s got that much more incentive to spice things up.) He credibility is as real as Tyrus Thomas’ jumpshot. I heard Donaghy’s claims summarized earlier as ‘Donaghy felt he could predict how a game would turn out based on the styles of play, relationships between players and refs, and the habits of the refs.’ It’s bad that all this stuff is so predictable, but it doesn’t indicate anything is fixed. And you don’t have to be an NBA ref to figure those things out. > [@gonzomax](#): > > [Deadspin | The Confessions Of An NBA Scorekeeper](http://deadspin.com/5345287/the-confessions-of-an-nba-scorekeeper?skyline=true&s=x) While we are at it. Here is an article by a basketball scorekeeper who say what a farce the stats they create are. “They create” assists? Yes, stats get padded for home teams. That’s also true in football (see: assists on tackles) and in baseball (hits vs. errors depending). It’s bullshit but it’s also irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/8 "2009-10-31T00:51:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Donaghy is a somewhat untrustworthy, in the same way sleeping in your own vomit after a night of drinking is somewhat unpleasant. He’s a crook with a gambling problem who has been trying to turn his crimes into a big payday ever since he got caught. (And since he’s out of work and going through a divorce, he’s got that much more incentive to spice things up.) He credibility is as real as Tyrus Thomas’ jumpshot. > > I heard Donaghy’s claims summarized earlier as ‘Donaghy felt he could predict how a game would turn out based on the styles of play, relationships between players and refs, and the habits of the refs.’ It’s bad that all this stuff is so predictable, but it doesn’t indicate anything is fixed. And you don’t have to be an NBA ref to figure those things out. > “They create” assists? Yes, stats get padded for home teams. That’s also true in football (see: assists on tackles) and in baseball (hits vs. errors depending). It’s bullshit but it’s also irrelevant. People said the same things about Canseco. Frankly, the things Donaghy says pass the smell test more than the line of shit that gets shoveled by the league in regards to officiating inconsistencies. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/9 "2009-10-31T00:56:56Z")
I don’t know why you find it so easy to dismiss Donaghy. I think ,from the games I have seen over the years, that he is credible. NBA officiating has been bad in a pattern that rewards those the league will benefit from. Jordan rules, LaBrons crab walk, Wade getting phantom fouls, and so much bending of calls to make the big names score and seem to be better than they are. The NBA has rewarded officials who call games that make the league richer. Then of course we have gambling and point spreads to deal with .The officials make money by betting on the side. whats new. Everybody hated Canseco for telling the truth. He was a squealer and told sercets. He just told the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/10 "2009-10-31T02:18:26Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Frankly, the things Donaghy says pass the smell test more than the line of shit that gets shoveled by the league in regards to officiating inconsistencies. “There’s a conspiracy against the Kings” is more believable than “officiating is inconsistent?” > [@gonzomax](#): > > I don’t know why you find it so easy to dismiss Donaghy. You just read the post where I explained it! > [@](#): > > LaBrons crab walk You’ve misremembered what happened there - he was called for traveling, correctly - and his name is L-E-B-R-O-N. I am trying to take your commentary on basketball seriously, but I have never once seen you spell the man’s name correctly and it is really a huge obstacle. It’s his seventh season. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/11 "2009-10-31T02:27:28Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “There’s a conspiracy against the Kings” is more believable than “officiating is inconsistent?” > You just read the post where I explained it! > You’ve misremembered what happened there - he was called for traveling, correctly - and his name is L-E-B-R-O-N. I am trying to take your commentary on basketball seriously, but I have never once seen you spell the man’s name correctly and it is really a huge obstacle. It’s his seventh season. That is your problem. But I do not know how a fan could watch basketball for any time without thinking something reeks. Especially when the league admits it cheats. The announcers often talked of Jordan Rules. They also said a rookie, no matter how touted could not expect the calls a player like Jordan gets. that is the league admitting it sanctions cheating. Then in the playoffs they announce they are going to be particularly tough on certain calls. Coincidently the changes would help the team that the league would get the best revenue from. Basketball is an easy game to fix. That is why so much college ball is tainted. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/12 "2009-10-31T03:48:07Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > But I do not know how a fan could watch basketball for any time without thinking something reeks. Plenty is wrong with the officiating. > [@](#): > > Especially when the league admits it cheats. The announcers often talked of Jordan Rules. Announcers aren’t “the league.” They don’t work for the league, they _talk about it_. > [@](#): > > They also said a rookie, no matter how touted could not expect the calls a player like Jordan gets. that is the league admitting it sanctions cheating. Do you understand the concept of TV networks? ESPN is not a part of the NBA, and neither is TNT. > [@](#): > > Then in the playoffs they announce they are going to be particularly tough on certain calls. Coincidently the changes would help the team that the league would get the best revenue from. Name one example of a time the league said it was going to crack down on some call during the playoffs. You hear this sometimes at the start of the regular season, but not in the playoffs. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/13 "2009-10-31T05:14:57Z")
If the NBA is doing so much to make sure big market teams and big market players get all the breaks, how has San Antonio won so many titles? And why are the Knicks in the toilet every year? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/14 "2009-10-31T05:51:10Z")
And LeBron hasn’t won one yet either. And marketable Phoenix never made the finals this decade, much less won one, while Detroit won a championship and reached the Eastern finals or better six years in a row. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/15 "2009-10-31T15:46:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Plenty is wrong with the officiating. > Announcers aren’t “the league.” They don’t work for the league, they _talk about it_. > Do you understand the concept of TV networks? ESPN is not a part of the NBA, and neither is TNT. > Name one example of a time the league said it was going to crack down on some call during the playoffs. You hear this sometimes at the start of the regular season, but not in the playoffs. Pistons v Miami. Wade got so many phantom calls the Pistons had to sit back and allow him to run in untouched and then he still got calls. The league does not appreciate defense. They want scoring with big fancy dunks. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/16 "2009-10-31T16:12:51Z")
[http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/9-19-2003-45596.asp](http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/9-19-2003-45596.asp) Basketball is the easiest sport to fix. If you have the refs or just 1 player you can affect the score. Just a little change will decide if you cover the spot or not, often without changing who wins. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/17 "2009-10-31T18:10:52Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > People said the same things about Canseco. 1. Canseco’s not in the same position as Donaghy. 2. Canseco telling the truth (in general; his account doesn’t, in fact, match with known facts in a lot of respects) doesn’t change the fact that Donaghy’s truthfulness should, at the very least, he held in great skepticism by any intelligent observer. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/18 "2009-10-31T18:56:55Z")
The position taken be many is that a guy who squeals is not to be trusted. Yet even when it is proven that these guys are telling the truth, the reaction is always he must have an agenda. Whistlebowers face the same thing. Many automatically accuse them of lying to make money. After so many cases of them being corroborated, I would think people should be ready to accept what is revealed. I do not have a default position that the person who tells is lying. I wait to see what can be backed up. Canseco had proof all over the baseball statistics that were undeniable. But many rejected him and called him names. Why should Donaghy be held in skepticism? He has not told unbelievable stories. Sports have a long history of cheating and fixing. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/19 "2009-11-01T17:14:03Z")
Yeah, Donaghy said some refs have feuds with players, point shave, back stars or certain teams, don’t play by the rules, and so on. Where are the revelations? 😃 But seriously, I think the main thing NBA fans actually learned from all of this is the reason Donaghy got caught: he told his people what refs would be working what games before the game took place. This information is supposed to be a secret. But if you know the refs you can make reliable bets and come out ahead. That is pretty bad. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757/20 "2009-11-01T17:23:16Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The position taken be many is that a guy who squeals is not to be trusted. People don’t mistrust him because he is a “squealer”, they mistrust him because he is a criminal. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donaghy-writes-a-nba-ref-expose/515757.md?page=2)