# Donald Just Lost The Election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 16, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103 "2016-09-16T18:03:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/81 "2016-09-17T12:39:24Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > I love how white liberals like to presume and expect how all Black people will feel about an issue. Maybe Black people want to see Obama’s birth certificate too. Has there been a poll? Say you wake up in dungeon. I pick a black American voter at random, and you guess whether or not they plan to vote for Trump. Get it right, get a million dollars and your freedom. Wrong, you get your balls hammered flat with a meat tenderizer. Which way do you think you’re gonna go? (Note: for the purposes of this thought experiment, it is assumed that you have balls and that you would not enjoy having them crushed.) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/82 "2016-09-17T12:46:21Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > … No other possible explanation, huh? Because no such questions were raised by any other President born to a Kenyan father and spend time outside the U.S. as a young boy? > … Yes. No other possible explanation to no small degree precisely because no such persistent questions were seriously ever raised and continued about any other President or candidate before that. Look historically and compare/contrast. [George Romney](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/how-mitt-romneys-mexican-born-father-was-eligible-to-be-president/), Mitt’s father, _was born in Mexico_ and ran against Nixon in 1968. A few noises were made by a few but even those making the noises stated explicitly they would not challenge his eligibility. So yeah. No other possible explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/83 "2016-09-17T12:49:55Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes. No other possible explanation to no small degree precisely because no such persistent questions were seriously ever raised and continued about any other President or candidate before that. > > Look historically and compare/contrast. [George Romney](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/how-mitt-romneys-mexican-born-father-was-eligible-to-be-president/), Mitt’s father, _was born in Mexico_ and ran against Nixon in 1968. A few noises were made by a few but even those making the noises stated explicitly they would not challenge his eligibility. > > So yeah. No other possible explanation. Ted Cruz had the same type of birther questions about him. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/84 "2016-09-17T12:51:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He didn’t even have it. It was a state form that isn’t kept by individuals. He released all the information he had in 2008. It was not at all reasonable, in any way whatsoever, for anyone to believe that this information was not sufficient proof of his birthplace. > > In 2011, finally, the state of Hawaii agreed to release the long-form. But there was no reason for anyone to doubt the earlier forms, except for racism. > > There were plenty of such assurances in 2008. Every possible assurance. Again, there was not a single shred of evidence for any person to believe he was born anywhere else, and tons of evidence he was born in Hawaii. > > Trump was still a birther for many years after 2011, when the long-form was released. Why? Why did he continue pushing this bullshit, evidence-free racist crap for 5 years after 2011? Yes, there was _evidence_, but there was not _proof_. Do you not think that the person who holds the office should be able to prove he meets the Constitutional requirements? You kneejerkily ascribe questioning of his eligibility to racism. I ascribe it to his unusual background and personal story. Now I don’t know why anyone would question things after the form they wanted released was released. I also don’t know the degree to which Trump pushed the Birtherism angle after the release of the long form. But there hasn’t been any new evidence (as far as I know) and Trump just stated he is of the opinion that Obama was, in fact, born in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/85 "2016-09-17T12:54:22Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yes, there was _evidence_, but there was not _proof_. Do you not think that the person who holds the office should be able to prove he meets the Constitutional requirements? You kneejerkily ascribe questioning of his eligibility to racism. I ascribe it to his unusual background and personal story. Now I don’t know why anyone would question things after the form they wanted released was released. I also don’t know the degree to which Trump pushed the Birtherism angle after the release of the long form. But there hasn’t been any new evidence (as far as I know) and Trump just stated he is of the opinion that Obama was, in fact, born in the U.S. Yes, there was proof – tons and tons of proof. There were Hawaiian newspaper (2 different papers) announcements announcing the birth of Barack Obama; there were the reports from family and friends; there was the 2008 birth certificate release; there was the official Hawaiian state press release reporting that all state records prove Obama was born in Hawaii. All of this was in 2008. That’s more than enough to constitute proof. The 2011 form told us nothing we didn’t already know. After the 2008 information release, and especially after the 2011 long-form release (which didn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know), there was no reason whatsoever to question his birthplace, and Donald Trump continually did so until earlier this year. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/86 "2016-09-17T12:55:36Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Ted Cruz had the same type of birther questions about him. If you rephrase this sentence to put it in active voice, you’ll discover why it’s a bad argument. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/87 "2016-09-17T12:55:49Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes. No other possible explanation to no small degree precisely because no such persistent questions were seriously ever raised and continued about any other President or candidate before that. > > Look historically and compare/contrast. [George Romney](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/how-mitt-romneys-mexican-born-father-was-eligible-to-be-president/), Mitt’s father, _was born in Mexico_ and ran against Nixon in 1968. A few noises were made by a few but even those making the noises stated explicitly they would not challenge his eligibility. > > So yeah. No other possible explanation. Wait, so Romney’s eligibility was looked at. And so was McCain’s. I think everyone’s eligibility should be looked at. And it would be logical that those with more exotic backgrounds would be looked at a bit more closely. McCain’s eligibility was fairly easy to figure out. I assume Romney’s was, too. And if Obama had released his long form certificate immediately, the Birtherism notion would have had much less fuel. And as someone else just posted, Ted Cruz’s eligibility was also looked at. So to White guys and a Hispanic also had their eligibility looked at. But when it happens to a Black guy, RACISM! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/88 "2016-09-17T12:57:20Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Wait, so Romney’s eligibility was looked at. And so was McCain’s. I think everyone’s eligibility should be looked at. And it would be logical that those with more exotic backgrounds would be looked at a bit more closely. McCain’s eligibility was fairly easy to figure out. I assume Romney’s was, too. And if Obama had released his long form certificate immediately, the Birtherism notion would have had much less fuel. Obama didn’t have his long-form, the state of Hawaii did, _and the state of Hawaii publicly confirmed his birthplace in 2008_. There was a mountain of proof of his birthplace in 2008 and not a shred of evidence for anywhere else. His eligibility was looked at in great detail in 2008 and nothing was found except lots of proof he was born in Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/89 "2016-09-17T12:58:21Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Ted Cruz had the same type of birther questions about him. [Pushed by Trump.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/13/tracing-the-evolution-of-donald-trumps-birther-attack-on-ted-cruz/) > [@](#): > > Eight days ago, Donald Trump floated the idea that Ted Cruz might cause Republicans some legal headaches if he won the GOP presidential nomination because he was born in Canada – albeit to a mother who was and is a U.S. citizen. > > Today, Cruz’s citizenship – and the questions surrounding it – is the single most dominant issue in the Republican race and has, without question, slowed Cruz’s momentum in Iowa and nationally. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/90 "2016-09-17T12:58:52Z")
Obama never did reveal the time machine he must have used to get his birth announcement printed in the Honolulu newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/91 "2016-09-17T13:00:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Obama didn’t have his long-form, the state of Hawaii did, _and the state of Hawaii publicly confirmed his birthplace in 2008_. There was a mountain of proof of his birthplace in 2008 and not a shred of evidence for anywhere else. His eligibility was looked at in great detail in 2008 and nothing was found except lots of proof he was born in Hawaii. Didn’t Obama have to agree to have it released? That’s my recollection, loose as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/92 "2016-09-17T13:00:39Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Wait, so Romney’s eligibility was looked at. And so was McCain’s. I think everyone’s eligibility should be looked at. And it would be logical that those with more exotic backgrounds would be looked at a bit more closely. McCain’s eligibility was fairly easy to figure out. I assume Romney’s was, too. And if Obama had released his long form certificate immediately, the Birtherism notion would have had much less fuel. How many posts are you going to ignore that tell you that HE DOESN’T HAVE THE LONG FORM. HE CAN’T RELEASE IT BECAUSE IT IS NOT IN HIS POSSESSION. IT IS AN ITEM THAT HE CAN NOT RELEASE BECAUSE HE DOESN’T CONTROL IT, HAVE POSSESSION OF IT, OR DECIDE WHO CAN SEE IT. IT IS CONTROLLED BY THE HAWAIIAN GOVERNMENT. HOW CAN HE RELEASE HIS LONG FORM EARLIER THAN 2011 IF HE DOES NOT HAVE ACCESS TO IT OR POSSESSION OF IT OR CONTROL OF WHO SEES IT? SHORT ANSWER-- HE CAN’T. Plus your claim that the Birtherism would have had less fuel if he “had released his long form immediately” is bull because there was plenty of continued racist speculation even after the Hawaiian government released it in 2011. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/93 "2016-09-17T13:01:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Didn’t Obama have to agree to have it released? That’s my recollection, loose as it is. Obama asked to have it released _and the state of Hawaii said no_ for years, until 2011, since the state of Hawaii didn’t want to start a precedent. This wasn’t a public document, or even a private document – it was a confidential state record that wasn’t for public release. And the long-form didn’t do shit, since Trump and the other birthers continued birthering for years afterwards. The birther conspiracy was never about birth certificates, which is proven by the continuance of birtherism long after 2011. It was always about racism and deligitimizing and de-Americanizing our first black president. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/94 "2016-09-17T13:10:13Z")
It might have been reasonable in 2008 to ask for proof Obama was eligible to be President. That proof was provided promptly. It was not reasonable, after all that proof, to continue to spread baseless lies and allegations about his birthplace. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/95 "2016-09-17T13:18:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > McCain’s eligibility was fairly easy to figure out. I assume Romney’s was, too. Wrong. And wrong. Nobody has ever litigated the exact definition of “natural-born citizen” in such a way as to definitively determine whether or not it includes the peculiarities of these two cases (as opposed to the non-peculiarity of birth to a citizen mother within the borders of a US state). That’s why McCain ended up getting a Senate resolution affirming him as a natural-born citizen. (If Trump had been really clever, he would have trolled Cruz by publicly urging him to do likewise, knowing perfectly well that about 95 of the other 99 senators wouldn’t piss on him if he were on fire.) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/96 "2016-09-17T13:22:46Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Trump’s claim that the rumor started with the Clinton campaign is true. Don’t spend your [Four Pinocchios](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/05/06/donald-trumps-ridiculous-claim-that-hillary-clinton-started-the-birther-movement/) all in one place. Actually, maybe you should wait and see if this double-down earns the “Pants On Fire” upgrade. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/97 "2016-09-17T13:26:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Didn’t Obama have to agree to have it released? That’s my recollection, loose as it is. Have you seen _none_ of the many other threads we have done on this subject? I really don’t understand why we are discussing this like it is a new topic. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/98 "2016-09-17T13:34:11Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I believe I understand the OP’s choice of thread title, but it really doesn’t quite work. My impression is that the majority of Trump supporters absolutely love it when he sticks it to the media. Absolutely. I’m not a Trump supporter but I strongly dislike the biased media. Why were the media suddenly digging up ancient history anyway? Trump’s connection to the birthers was several years ago. He hasn’t mentioned that since becoming a candidate a year ago. It’s the idiot journalists that dug this up again. Hoping that he still supported the birthers. Turns out Trump has moved on to more important issues. No one gives a crap about a lame duck President. The birther debate lost steam years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/99 "2016-09-17T13:40:55Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Absolutely. > > Why were the media suddenly digging up ancient history anyway? Trump’s connection to the birthers was several years ago. He hasn’t mentioned that since becoming a candidate a year ago. > > It’s the idiot journalists that dug this up again. Hoping he still supported the birthers. Turns out he’s moved on. No one gives a crap about a lame duck President. It was _his_ gawddamn press conference, after _he_ dropped hints all over the fucking place that he had something important to pass along. BTW, Where’s the 5 million bucks he’s supposed to donate to charity the instant it is shown that Obama was born in the U.S., and what were those interesting things his special investigators supposedly found out about Obama birth? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/100 "2016-09-17T13:48:11Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Absolutely. I’m not a Trump supporter but I strongly dislike the biased media. > > Why were the media suddenly digging up ancient history anyway? Trump’s connection to the birthers was several years ago. \*\* He hasn’t mentioned that since becoming a candidate a year ago.\*\* > > It’s the idiot journalists that dug this up again. Hoping that he still supported the birthers. Turns out Trump has moved on to more important issues. No one gives a crap about a lame duck President. The birther debate lost steam years ago. **W.T.F?** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103.md?page=6)