# Donald Just Lost The Election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 16, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103 "2016-09-16T18:03:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/121 "2016-09-17T17:53:04Z")
OK, got this. Hillary instructed her minions to start spreading the “birther” crap - taking care that the minions so deployed were so far down the Democratic Party food chain as to be anonymous! Shrewd! Then when a heavy weight strategist for the Party suggested she use the “exotic” and “not really American” theme, she appeared to reject it, even going to the extreme of appearing to “fire” the strategist. She further cemented her defense by working strenuously for Obama’s election after the won the nomination! Cunning! And never saying word one about it, playing the long game for her Presidential run, eight years hence… Trump, of course, that paragon of civic virture…would have none of it! Nosir! He immediatly went on the attack…well, not really _immediately_, but close enough! Anyway, he worked tirelessly to prove these lies false, even sending investigators at his own expense! But Hillary was relentless, even conning some few scattered Republicans into echoing her perjury. Bad Hillary! Bad! But Trump would not yield! He even offered hints and tips to Obama about how he could silence this calumny, like releasing the “long form”. Even after this was done, he kept up the pressure to prove Obama a _boney fido_ citizen! Finally, there was no choice! He had to assemble a collection of military retirees and medal winners, because nothing says truth like a stage full of lifers. Shrewdly, he distracted the LSM reporters till he dropped his bomb! Obama was born in USA, it was all Hillary’s idea, but he stopped it dead in its tracks, BOOM! Case closed! Only took him eight years! but he had to build a hotel and gather the vets, or it wouldn’t work! Personally, I think this story would be better with wizards and unicorns. I like my fairy tales with wizards and unicorns. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/122 "2016-09-17T18:09:02Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > Ah, didn’t the FBI clear Lerner of using her office for political purposes? I’m so tied that you may be relying on unreliable news sources for your facts about politics. > [Justice Dept. won't file criminal charges over allegations of IRS targeting conservative groups](http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-irs-conservatives-20151023-story.html) Lois Lerner publicly apologized for targeting conservatives. Fact! [https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/irs-admits-targeting-conservatives-for-tax-scrutiny-in-2012-election/2013/05/10/3b6a0ada-b987-11e2-92f3-f291801936b8\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/irs-admits-targeting-conservatives-for-tax-scrutiny-in-2012-election/2013/05/10/3b6a0ada-b987-11e2-92f3-f291801936b8_story.html) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/123 "2016-09-17T18:14:23Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Many people say that Ohio is not a state. I’ve read it all over. Many, many people. Well, I have read that Ohio wasn’t legally accepted as a state, and therefore the income tax is illegal because Ohio’s vote on the 16th amendment isn’t valid. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/124 "2016-09-17T18:18:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Absolutely. I’m not a Trump supporter but I strongly dislike the biased media. Yeah, I can’t stand Breitbart and Fox News either, but I doubt that that’s what you’re talking about, is it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/125 "2016-09-17T18:25:00Z")
**Pearl Clutching Provacateur** keeps dodging my question. Not surprising, considering how often Trump does it, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/126 "2016-09-17T18:42:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by \*\*magellan01 \*\* > > Didn’t Obama have to agree to have it released? That’s my recollection, loose as it is. > > **Have you seen _none_ of the many other threads we have done on this subject?** I really don’t understand why we are discussing this like it is a new topic. 😕 My bold. This X 1 million. How many times does someone have to say it?? Holy crap. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/127 "2016-09-17T18:52:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **Pearl Clutching Provacateur** keeps dodging my question. Not surprising, considering how often Trump does it, perhaps. I’m just glad that \*\*Pearl Clutching Provacateur \*\* has confirmed for us that a presidential candidate is personally responsible for Every Single Thing that Every Single Supporter does, no matter how far removed they are from the campaign, or how strenuously the candidate denounces them. Thank you, \*\*Pearl Clutching Provacateur \*\*. Thank you very much for this. I look forward to your vigorous defense of North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/128 "2016-09-17T19:35:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yes, there was _evidence_, but there was not _proof_. Do you not think that the person who holds the office should be able to prove he meets the Constitutional requirements? … But amazingly no one else has been held to the same standard of proof. No one else. No one else … has been held … to the same standard of proof. And you know what I’m talking about. (Ew. It makes me feel dirty to even mock Trump’s style.) > [@magellan01](#): > > Wait, so Romney’s eligibility was looked at. And so was McCain’s. I think everyone’s eligibility should be looked at. And it would be logical that those with more exotic backgrounds would be looked at a bit more closely. McCain’s eligibility was fairly easy to figure out. I assume Romney’s was, too. … The fact that George Romney was born to an American citizen in Mexico and that he was not born in America was never questioned. The item that is and was unclear is if that counts as a "natural-born citizen. Most legal scholars believe _it does_ but any given court day … It was also [not](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/us/politics/11mccain.html?_r=1) _clearly_ established for McCain but "“No court will get close to it, and everyone else is on board, so there’s a constitutional consensus, the merits of arguments such as this one aside,” It was easy to figure out for both of them if you accept that being born to an American citizen is sufficient. In Obama’s case that was that held as not sufficient and his birth in the United States was accused of being a lie. Because of his being an exotic. Note again that by the standards applied to G Romney and J McCain that was _immaterial_: for _them_ being born to a citizen even though born out of the country was enough to stop the inquiry at a mild grumble. And the evidence of his birth in America was also accused of being faked, his birth certificate a forgery, and Hawaiian officials lying. Private investigators were sent to prove it … and you wouldn’t believe what they found! (What do fictional private investigators find? Oh! They found … a McGuffin!) $5,000,000 promised to charity if Conald Trump could be convinced that the evidence was not all faked and that Obama was a natural-born American citizen. (Will it be given? He still can!) I am struggling to conclude in a way that does not get me warned for a personal insult so I’ll just stop here. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/129 "2016-09-17T20:03:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He had to assemble a collection of military retirees and medal winners, because nothing says truth like a stage full of lifers. Spoken like a true grunt, with all the appropriate spite and sarcasm. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/130 "2016-09-17T20:29:10Z")
Not a grunt, just a brat. By the time i was sixteen, there was nothing I wanted more than getting into uniform. By the time I was eighteen, nothing I wanted less. What happened? I don’t know, I only know that it did. And so it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/131 "2016-09-17T20:41:15Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’m just glad that \*\*Pearl Clutching Provacateur \*\* has confirmed for us that a presidential candidate is personally responsible for Every Single Thing that Every Single Supporter does… Perhaps he got the idea from all the SDMB anti-Trumpets who hold Trump responsible for every stupid or racist thing one of his supporters says or does. Happens all the time around here. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/132 "2016-09-17T20:49:16Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Unless you can cite that her campaign were engaging in a whisper campaign, I’d like you to withdraw this claim. > > So, you’re agreeing that it wasn’t Clinton or her campaign that started the discussion? Because that was Trump’s claim. Or, are you saying that Clinton has control over all Democrats and all of her supporters? > > I would love for you or **magellan01** to just come out and say, “you know, I agree, Trump was lying about this one.” Oh, please. While it is possible that one of her minions acted on his own (and she did fire him immediately), thinking that her boy, Sydney Blumenthal, would have gone down this road without her okay is ridiculous. Now why can’t YOU just admit the FACT that it was not started by Trump. Really, dude. I know you like operating in a closed system here on the SD, but while it can control what is popular opinion on these boards, there’s the little matter of reality that doesn’t knuckle under so easy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/133 "2016-09-17T20:52:27Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Perhaps he got the idea from all the SDMB anti-Trumpets who hold Trump responsible for every stupid or racist thing one of his supporters says or does. Happens all the time around here. Tell you what, we’ll just hold him accountable for the shit he doesn’t openly reject. Work for you? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/134 "2016-09-17T21:10:18Z")
Nope. I’m sure you’d like it if he had to spend all his time on the defensive, seeing as how to do so is bad PR and all. But as for me I’d rather he be held accountable for what he openly supports, but even there falsity reigns supreme. Concern over illegal immigration = racism. Concern over terrorists among immigrants = racism. Scattershot insults at people of all sexes = sexism against women. Etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum. Oh, and let’s not forget Evil. He’s Evil! Evil! Evil! _“The truth is self-defeating if you’re a liberal.”_ ~Rush Limbaugh, circa 1991 (i.e., Bill Clinton’s first presidential campaign) 😉 There are some things about Trump that concern me enough or make me uncertain enough than I’m not going to vote for him, but I’m afraid the blatant dishonesty surrounding his campaign and his supporters is more than a dedicated ignorance-fighter can bear. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/135 "2016-09-17T21:33:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, please. While it is possible that one of her minions acted on his own (and she did fire him immediately), thinking that her boy, Sydney Blumenthal, would have gone down this road without her okay is ridiculous. > > Now why can’t YOU just admit the FACT that it was not started by Trump. Really, dude. I know you like operating in a closed system here on the SD, but while it can control what is popular opinion on these boards, there’s the little matter of reality that doesn’t knuckle under so easy. Who said Trump started it? He didn’t start it (and neither did Hillary or anyone in her campaign, including Blumenthal). Trump bought into it, either due to extreme stupidity and credulousness, or extreme cynicism and dishonesty, since there was a mountain of proof Obama was born in Hawaii and no evidence otherwise by the time Trump involved himself, and continued spreading this evidence free bullshit conspiracy nonsense until yesterday, many years after mountain upon mountain of proof was publicly made available. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/136 "2016-09-17T21:41:21Z")
**magellan01** , do you at least now fully understand the sequence of events? In 2008, some folks asked about Obama’s birthplace. He provided his birth certificate (the only one the state of Hawaii provides to Hawaiian born individuals), newspaper announcements, and the state of Hawaii officially and publicly stated that Obama was born there. That is proof he was born in Hawaii, especially considering that there was zero evidence, none whatsoever, that he was born anywhere else. Several people who hated Obama continued to publicly doubt his birthplace, despite having literally no legitimate or logical reason to do so based on the proof provided. They mumbled about this for years, pretending that the Hawaiian “long-form” birth certificate was something Obama had control of, when he didn’t have any control of it at all, since it was a state record that wasn’t released to anyone, including the individual recorded on the paper. Around 2010 or 2011, Trump started up with the conspiracy. He had no evidence at all for it, but he started publicly trumpeting that he didn’t believe Obama or any of the proof he provided, based on nothing. Trump said that he dispatched investigators to Hawaii, and said publicly they found “amazing” and “unbelievable” things, but he never released any information whatsoever. At some point in 2011, the state of Hawaii gave Obama his “long form” certificate, which he publicly released. This didn’t affect Trump’s public doubting of Obama’s birth, despite the mountain of proof. He continued this public doubting until yesterday, including stating that he doubted the legitimacy of the proof well into 2016, despite not a shred of evidence for doing so. This is the timeline of Trump’s ridiculous and evidence-free (and racist and incredibly disrespectful) birtherism. Do you understand why he’s so strongly criticized for it? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/137 "2016-09-17T21:46:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, please. While it is possible that one of her minions acted on his own (and she did fire him immediately), thinking that her boy, Sydney Blumenthal, would have gone down this road without her okay is ridiculous. Cite that he did anything of the sort? > [@](#): > > Now why can’t YOU just admit the FACT that it was not started by Trump. Who has done the most to spread and sustain this lie among people like, well, you? > [@](#): > > there’s the little matter of reality that doesn’t knuckle under so easy. Yes, isn’t there? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/138 "2016-09-17T21:49:10Z")
Hitler didn’t start the Nazi Party, he just joined it. So, really, not his fault! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/139 "2016-09-17T22:01:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Hitler didn’t start the Nazi Party, he just joined it. So, really, not his fault! Wait, Hitler godwinized the Nazis? Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103/140 "2016-09-17T22:13:09Z")
Well, in a way, yes. He was sent by the police to spy on a rather minor political bunch, the DAP. He attended a few meetings and then got up and said something like “You guys don’t know what the fuck you are doing! Your speeches are dull, you have to throw some red meat around! Here, let me show you!” And he did. They made him their leader. And thus did a mediocre water-colorist become a monster. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-just-lost-the-election/766103.md?page=8)