# Donald Trump announces presidential run **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 16, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679 "2015-06-16T16:35:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/301 "2015-07-18T21:23:44Z")
[The Donald belittled John McCain’s heroism](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/19/us/politics/trump-belittles-mccains-war-record.html?_r=0) at a GOP candidates forum today. [QUOTE=The Donald] He’s not a war hero. He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured. [/QUOTE] Apparently this isn’t going over well with the party leaders and other candidates. Rick Perry had this to say: > [@](#): > > His attack on veterans make him unfit to be commander in chief of the U.S. armed forces, and he should immediately withdraw from the race for president. Is this going to be what finally does the big-mouth, overblown buffoon in? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/302 "2015-07-18T21:44:53Z")
Definitely an inartful thing for Trump to say, but it’s pretty clear that Perry is worried about Trump’s candidacy and will use any excuse as a basis to claim Trump should drop out. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/303 "2015-07-18T22:00:47Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Is this going to be what finally does the big-mouth, overblown buffoon in? You forgot “draft dodging.” Especially in the Vietnam era, I don’t think most of us regard avoiding being drafted as a heinous crime. But those who chose not to fight - those who worked the deferment system as much as possible, as TD did - need to maintain a little respect towards those who did serve, especially those who took as much shit a 5-year POW. McCain exasperates me every time he runs. But Trump manages to disgust me every time. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/304 "2015-07-18T22:05:38Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > [The Donald belittled John McCain’s heroism](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/19/us/politics/trump-belittles-mccains-war-record.html?_r=0) at a GOP candidates forum today. > > > [@](#): > > > > **Originally Posted by The Donald** > > > > He’s not a war hero. He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured. **Donald Trump** : “Helen Keller’s not a hero. She’s only a hero because she’s blind and deaf. I like people who aren’t blind and deaf.” \* - Stolen from Twitter ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/305 "2015-07-18T22:10:33Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Definitely an inartful thing for Trump to say, but it’s pretty clear that Perry is worried about Trump’s candidacy and will use any excuse as a basis to claim Trump should drop out. It’s something so bad that I’m pretty sure he’s trolling. No one would actually think that you could say that and not stir up controversy. His strategy is clearly to be as controversial as possible, and keep himself in the news. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/306 "2015-07-18T22:10:37Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > You forgot “draft dodging.” > > Especially in the Vietnam era, I don’t think most of us regard avoiding being drafted as a heinous crime. But those who chose not to fight - those who worked the deferment system as much as possible, as TD did - need to maintain a little respect towards those who did serve, especially those who took as much shit a 5-year POW. > > McCain exasperates me every time he runs. But Trump manages to disgust me every time. One of the stories wrote the Trump claimed he got a medical deferment because of a bone spur in his foot. When asked for some detail, he couldn’t remember which foot. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/307 "2015-07-18T22:24:03Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It’s something so bad that I’m pretty sure he’s trolling. No one would actually think that you could say that and not stir up controversy. His strategy is clearly to be as controversial as possible, and keep himself in the news. It’s always been Trump’s practice when hit to hit back even harder. He talked about it in _The Art of the Deal_. He goes after business people who try to shaft him (as his numerous recent lawsuits attest) and he really hammered Rosie O’Donnell after she made fun of him on television. I’m sure his intention was more to hammer McCain than it was to belittle captured soldiers, but he does need to be more mindful that he shouldn’t just rattle off stuff from the top of his head if he’s serious about getting elected. I’m very much in favor of him saying what he thinks and not kowtowing to political correctness, but still there are limits and he needs to keep common decency in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/308 "2015-07-18T22:39:49Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It’s something so bad that I’m pretty sure he’s trolling. The [Donald Trump trolling hypothesis](http://www.vox.com/2015/7/12/8937107/donald-trump-troll-GOP). Basically Trump is observationally equivalent to a troll. [Video](http://www.vox.com/2015/7/17/8989489/donald-trump-troll-video), for those who like videos. Trump’s candidacy benefits Jeb, as Trump sucks all the media attention away from his challengers. There’s no better opponent than an attention whore who can’t win. So if Trump is a troll, there are definitely beneficiaries. As counter-trolling goes, I’ll give Rick Perry a B. * * * New Yorker cover: [The New Yorker's Donald Trump cover is the perfect metaphor for his campaign | Vox](http://www.vox.com/2015/7/17/8993763/donald-trump-new-yorker) * * * Out in the world of fact, [the border hasn’t been this secure in 40 years](http://washingtonspectator.org/win-vitkowsky-memo-to-republicans-the-border-is-secure/). [INDENT]In January, the Migration Policy Institute released a 175-page report detailing the rise of border enforcement since 1970. The report says spending on border security is at an all time high while apprehensions at the border — commonly used as a benchmark for how many people successfully enter the country — are the lowest they have been since 1970. [/INDENT] What’s interesting is that his GOP critics object a lot more to Trump’s expression than to the bigoted message itself. They don’t refute it with facts. Instead they say -correctly- that his remarks are _impolitic_. Lindsey Graham: “I think he’s a wrecking ball for the future of the Republican Party in the Hispanic community.” In other words, “Shh! Don’t say things like that out loud!” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/309 "2015-07-18T23:37:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s always been Trump’s practice when hit to hit back even harder. He talked about it in _The Art of the Deal_. He goes after business people who try to shaft him (as his numerous recent lawsuits attest) and he really hammered Rosie O’Donnell after she made fun of him on television. I’m sure his intention was more to hammer McCain than it was to belittle captured soldiers, but he does need to be more mindful that he shouldn’t just rattle off stuff from the top of his head if he’s serious about getting elected. I’m very much in favor of him saying what he thinks and not kowtowing to political correctness, but still there are limits and he needs to keep common decency in mind. :rolleyes: As pointed out in post #297: I guess it is preferable for many Republicans to support a straight talking politician that does not back down **from his pants on fire lies.** It is not just political correctness that is tarring Trump, but he is being inaccurate and lying. > **[Fact-checks | PolitiFact](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?speaker=donald-trump)** > > PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter. > [@](#): > > Donald Trump: > “The last quarter, it was just announced, our gross domestic product … was below zero. Who ever heard of this? It’s never below zero.” > > (Pants on fire lie) — PolitiFact National > > 42 times does not equal zero. > [@](#): > > Donald Trump: > “Our real unemployment is anywhere from 18 to 20 percent. Don’t believe the 5.6. Don’t believe it.” > > False — PolitiFact National > > No credible number is that high. And many more examples there. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/310 "2015-07-19T00:19:03Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > :rolleyes: > > As pointed out in post #297: I guess it is preferable for many Republicans to support a straight talking politician that does not back down **from his pants on fire lies.** It is not just political correctness that is tarring Trump, but he is being inaccurate and lying. How do you feel about Obama and his lies about how “the public will have five days to look at every bill that lands on my desk” and “You can keep your plan and your doctor”? And how do you feel about the Clintons, such eager and profligate liars that even their own supporters come to abhor and speak out about it? Yet one is regarded as a rock star by most Democrats and the other is widely acknowledged to be the next Democratic candidate for the presidency. For the life of me I can’t recall you ever becoming so incensed about the lies and inaccuracy coming from that bunch, and their lies generally have much greater negative impact on people’s lives than anything Trump might be saying about the domestic product or the unemployment rate. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/311 "2015-07-19T00:36:45Z")
Trump’s post about McCain on Facebook is followed by approximately one bajillon messages of praise and support. After McCain just called Trump’s supporters “crazies”, I don’t know that Trump’s comment is going to shed many of them. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/312 "2015-07-19T00:46:36Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > One of the stories wrote the Trump claimed he got a medical deferment because of a bone spur in his foot. When asked for some detail, he couldn’t remember which foot. Maybe its the one in his mouth. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/313 "2015-07-19T01:14:31Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > How do you feel about Obama and his lies about how “the public will have five days to look at every bill that lands on my desk” and “You can keep your plan and your doctor”? > > And how do you feel about the Clintons, such eager and profligate liars that even their own supporters come to abhor and speak out about it? Yet one is regarded as a rock star by most Democrats and the other is widely acknowledged to be the next Democratic candidate for the presidency. > > For the life of me I can’t recall you ever becoming so incensed about the lies and inaccuracy coming from that bunch, and their lies generally have much greater negative impact on people’s lives than anything Trump might be saying about the domestic product or the unemployment rate. In the many discussions of the health care issue I pointed out that the insurance companies the ones that dropped the ball, in any case I can see a doctor now, I did not had one for years until Obamacare. And just as useless are the rest of your already reheated talking points, what everyone can notice here is that **you are not dealing with what Trump said.** One will then have to assume that the point stands, you were not curious enough to find out what a reprehensible being Trump is before supporting him. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/314 "2015-07-19T02:41:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > How do you feel about Obama and his lies about how “the public will have five days to look at every bill that lands on my desk” and “You can keep your plan and your doctor”? > > And how do you feel about the Clintons, such eager and profligate liars that even their own supporters come to abhor and speak out about it? Yet one is regarded as a rock star by most Democrats and the other is widely acknowledged to be the next Democratic candidate for the presidency. > > For the life of me I can’t recall you ever becoming so incensed about the lies and inaccuracy coming from that bunch, and their lies generally have much greater negative impact on people’s lives than anything Trump might be saying about the domestic product or the unemployment rate. So it’s OK for Trump to lie, because Democrats do it, and because Trump’s a Republican and a Republican must win at all costs. OK, got it. ---
**Author:** ![Salvor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Salvor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salvor)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/315 "2015-07-19T02:50:45Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > [The Donald belittled John McCain’s heroism](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/19/us/politics/trump-belittles-mccains-war-record.html?_r=0) at a GOP candidates forum today. > > Apparently this isn’t going over well with the party leaders and other candidates. Rick Perry had this to say: > > Is this going to be what finally does the big-mouth, overblown buffoon in? It will do him in earlier than not, as nutty as the conservative base is, there are enough moderate republicans overall to muzzle the dogs and shift towards a more moderate candidate. In the meantime though, look at the conservative peanut gallery howl in approval in these comments. > **[VIDEO – Trump on McCain: ‘I Like People Who Weren’t Captured’](https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2015/07/18/trump-mccain-a-war-hero-because-he-was-captured-i-like-people-who-werent/)** > > Donald Trump remarked that Senator John McCain (R-AZ) is "a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured" You’d think Trump said something reasonable listening to many of those comments. Their love and devotion, the unstoppable force has collided with the imovable object (conservative love of military vets) and for the nut burgers, the unstoppable force has won. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/316 "2015-07-19T03:25:48Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > So it’s OK for Trump to lie, because Democrats do it, and because Trump’s a Republican and a Republican must win at all costs. OK, got it. No, what you need to get is that it’s more than a little hypocritical to whinge about so-called lies from Trump when you’re own team are world champions at it…and are sometimes lawbreakers in the process. It’s also hypocritical to whinge about so-called lies from an opponent when your attitude is that as long as you benefit in some way from the actions of your own candidate (or president, as the case may be), then whatever lies they told in achieving that benefit are meaningless and unworthy of consideration…as **GIGObuster’s** post would seem to indicate. It doesn’t matter to him that Obama lied about people about being able to keep their current plan and/or doctor because, hey, he has a doctor now and he didn’t then. So clearly **GIGObuster’s** fine with whatever dishonesty a politician employs to get their pet legislation passed as long as he personally benefits from it. Thus he hardly has room to complain about something so inconsequential as Trump’s allegations regarding the domestic product or unemployment rate. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/317 "2015-07-19T03:33:24Z")
As a lifelong McCain fanboy, that really pissed me off. But I don’t agree with Perry that he should drop out of the race. He shouldn’t win the nomination and I’d urge my fellow Republicans to not vote for him, but as a conservative I don’t believe saying the wrong things should mean you leave a race. Trump should leave the race because the voters reject him, and only because the voters reject him. So I look forward to hearing what else he’ll say between now and early next year. Perhaps next he’ll say that Carly Fiorina couldn’t last an episode on the Apprentice. Oh wait, that would be true. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/318 "2015-07-19T03:45:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No, what you need to get is that it’s more than a little hypocritical to whinge about so-called lies from Trump when you’re own team are world champions at it…and are sometimes lawbreakers in the process. “Whinge?” “So-called?” Quite lot of spin going on there, eh? I was under the impression that this thread was supposed to be about Donald Trump. I was probably thrown off by the misleading title. That’s OK, I understand that there is no other place you could conceivably “whinge” about the “so-called” lies of everybody except Mr. Trump. Do carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/319 "2015-07-19T03:59:37Z")
As I’m sure you’re aware, it has nothing to do with there being no other place. What it has to do with is **GIGObuster’s** whinging about Trump’s so-called lies as though they should disqualify him from office, when once again his own team are world champions at it. Thus his entire point re Trump/lies/his-unsuitability-for-office is shown to be utterly without merit. And that of course brings us right back around to the subject of the thread: Donald Trump, and whether his spin on the domestic product and/or the unemployment rate should rightly disqualify him from office in light of the established behavior of his opponents on the other side of the aisle. In other words, it wasn’t so much an attack on the Clintons and Obama (although recitations of their numerous lies might certainly make it seem such), it was a defense of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679/320 "2015-07-19T04:23:48Z")
Whining is essentially complaining about things that aren’t especially important, low nasal complaining cry sounds optional. On a forum dedicated to fighting ignorance, pointing out Trump’s nonfactual statements and habitual indifference to accuracy is not unimportant. Hence we are not discussing a real instance of whining. If Trump cared about accuracy, he would clarify and backpeddle, not double down on his non-truths. So methinks it’s fair to say that his behavior is qualitatively different than most politicians. This isn’t surprising as he really isn’t running for office, insofar as winning the Presidency is not the main goal. What Trump thinks he is doing is unclear to me. I wouldn’t know. I’m mildly curious about the eventual ROI of this escapade. Though I can’t claim that’s the motive. I don’t know his motives. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-announces-presidential-run/722679.md?page=17)