# Donald Trump is a fascist **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2023, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260 "2023-08-08T17:18:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260/21 "2023-08-08T22:47:56Z")
No, he is a Right Wing Populist, like Boris or Netanyahu . Now sure, both Hitler and Mussolini were Right Wing Populists before they moved to being a Fascist dictator, so you could call trump a _fascist wannabe_. But he is not now, nor was he a Dictator. He apparently wants to be. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260/22 "2023-08-08T23:03:42Z")
I don’t think you have to be a dictator to be a fascist. Presumably many card-carrying fascists and Nazis had no illusions about who was and who wasn’t Il Duce or Der Führer. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260/23 "2023-08-08T23:13:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Now sure, both Hitler and Mussolini were Right Wing Populists before they moved to being a Fascist dictator, so you could call trump a _fascist wannabe_. But he is not now, nor was he a Dictator. He apparently wants to be. Hitler was a fascist before he became a dictator, just like his supporters in the Nazi party were fascists even though the bulk of them never made it to dictator. Fascism is not a position, it is an ideology (or dogma, might be a better description). So too with Trump and his enablers. MAGA/Trumpism is an American fascist movement made up of and led by fascists. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260/24 "2023-08-09T02:02:58Z")
LOL, Trump is an idiot, and not a fascist. This is a lot of cherry picking. I’m _not_ saying that he doesn’t have a lot of supporters who might arguably be outright fascists, and many who might not agree that they’re tending towards fascism due to lack of self-reflection, but Trump, himself, is a populist without an original thought. He’s not a nice guy, and we can fairly criticise nearly everything about him, but calling this idiot a fascist credits him with more intelligence than he deserves. Ah, but I’m on record as hating Biden, so the above statements should be regarded as loving Trump and supporting everything he says and does. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260/25 "2023-08-09T02:26:58Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Hitler was a fascist before he became a dictator, just like his supporters in the Nazi party were fascists even though the bulk of them never made it to dictator. Fascism is not a position, it is an ideology (or dogma, might be a better description). Except were are talking about national leaders, and every fascist nation was a dictatorship. Sure, the ur-fascist party was just another German political party, but then it had not much of the aspects we associate with fascism- blaming bad stuff on the Jews, yes, but that is exactly what Right Wing Populism does- they promise, and when they cant keep those promises, it is always the fault of some disliked group- which then foments into hatred. Franco was a Fascist dictator, but never called himself a fascist. Look at wikis definition- **Fascism** _is a [far-right](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right), [authoritarian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian), [ultranationalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultranationalist) political ideology and movement,[[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#cite_note-1)[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#cite_note-Britannica-2)[[3]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#cite_note-m-w-3) characterized by a [dictatorial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictator) leader, centralized [autocracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocracy), [militarism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militarism), forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural [social hierarchy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class), subordination of [individual interests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualism) for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#cite_note-Britannica-2)[[3]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#cite_note-m-w-3)._ _Authoritarian, Dictator._ So at best trump was a fascist wannabe. And then this- _Since the end of [World War II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II) in 1945, few parties have openly described themselves as fascist; the term is more often used [pejoratively](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_(insult)) by political opponents._ Exactly what is happening here. Right Wing Populist is not a pejorative (altho it should be) but fascist is. So some trump haters (of whom I am one) call trump and desantis “fascists”, just to be name calling. Neither is- altho certainly that could be their long term goal of course. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260/26 "2023-08-09T02:42:47Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Trump is an idiot So was Hitler. Nobody said a fascist had to be smart. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Except were are talking about national leaders, and every fascist nation was a dictatorship. The fact that the US Constitution (barely) prevented Trump from achieving dictatorial powers for life doesn’t make him not a fascist. Again, the star of being fascist does not depend upon success. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260/27 "2023-08-11T14:31:05Z")
A wealthy minority that propagandize that, actually. GOP candidates are not chosen primarily by “the people.” ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260/28 "2023-08-11T14:53:44Z")
Whether or not the people chose the candidates, they were happy enough to elect them to office. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260/29 "2023-08-11T21:56:18Z")
Trump would reply with something like, “A lot of people say that Theodore Roosevelt was a fascist. The Great Strong Teddy Roosevelt. He was a strongman who ran on the big moose party. The biggest moose. And he believed America was exceptional and I do too. He did great things around the world, in the Phillipines, in Cuba. He made all the parks, the biggest national parks the world has ever seen. Not as big as one of the parks I gave New York, upstate New York Adirondacks. The mountains of New York, where Teddy was from. So if people want to compare me with Teddy I’ll gladly appreciate the comparing, to the great…one of the greatest presidents, after me, and he’s in that great museum in New York City, up on his horse. The rough rider in the Metropolitan Museum of History.” And he would be cheered and nobody would ask mention elites like Robert Reich to him ever again. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260/30 "2023-08-18T02:07:44Z")
Is Robert Reich an elite? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260/31 "2023-08-18T02:17:03Z")
Yes, but in the best way. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260/32 "2023-08-18T14:24:52Z")
Umberto Eco’s 1995 essay, “Ur-Fascism,” in The New York Review of Books, is an excellent discussion of fascism. Eco outlines 14 points or characteristics of fascism, and notes it is incoherent, syncretic, and contradictory in its nature. A précis and link to the whole article is here [Umberto Eco Makes a List of the 14 Common Features of Fascism | Open Culture](https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html) YMMV, but Trump ticks all 14 boxes, in my view. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260/33 "2023-08-18T21:02:53Z")
Yep. And I particularly like to make reference to his Ur-fascism model because, writing from the mid-90s, he was not writing responsive to or purporting to make specific predictions for our present time, and so he can’t be accused of being just another Trump-hater engaged in post hoc rationalization to make Trump look bad. He’s a man writing about fascism as it has presented in history, including during his own childhood growing up under Mussolini. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260/34 "2023-08-18T21:11:27Z")
Someday soon someone will write the book, “So You Thought the Fascists Lost the War,” and it will begin with V-E Day. I miss the giddy hopeful naïveté of “The Greening of America” sometimes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-a-fascist/988260.md?page=1)