# Donald Trump is now a birther **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044 "2011-03-17T17:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/181 "2011-04-04T12:11:05Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > you’re trying to stretch the definition of wealthy beyond the point of ludicrousness. Ludacris 2012! ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/182 "2011-04-04T17:34:58Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] And besides, the story of Jay-Z’s rise has nothing whatever to do with Trump or his abilities, so why we’re even talking about it is a mystery to me… [/QUOTE] > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > For the record, [you are the one who first used Diddy and Jay-Z as examples.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13644945&postcount=148) Tread carefully, **Fear**. You’re on the verge of getting the same “I consider you one of the dishonest posters” dis from **SA** that I got when I responded to his “Hey, you have to remember the context of my ‘Let me demonstrate the evils of sex ed by telling you about the time I discovered my dad’s porn stash and was so turned on I almost molested a fellow eight year old’ story” by noting that the context was a discussion of Sarah Palin’s Death Panel natterings. Oh, at first I tried to laugh it off. But ever since it became known that I am on the **SA** dishonest poster list, my credit rating has been slashed, babes in singles bars reject my pick-up lines, and when I tried to attend church incognito the Rev. Smith punched me in the nose. You’ve been warned. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/183 "2011-04-05T20:08:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It impresses me for several reasons, most of which I’ve already described upthread. He took the seed money he got from his father and used it as a springboard to much greater accomplishment than his father ever attained and in a much tougher market. “Seed money” in this case refers to more money than you will ever have earned. > [@](#): > > There are a lot of people who inherit 30 million dollars and ten years later they still have 30 million dollars. Others would have blown through it entirely on bad investments or through a combination of hookers, drugs and divorces resulting from ill-considered marriages. You’re wrong. The children of the rich are more likely to remain rich than the children of the poor are to become rich. In fact the children of the rich who don’t go to college are more liekly to be rich in adulthood than children of the poor who graduate. > [@](#): > > If you will read the Wiki page on Trump you will see a fantastic record of accomplishment, and in a wide range of endeavor. His business efforts provide a very good living for thousands of people (around 15,000 to 20,000 employees the last I heard, plus additional jobs for the employees of the architects, engineers, banks and construction companies who benefit from the work they get from him). It looks to me like the people who license his name employ all those people. They could probably pay them more if they didn’t blow so much of their budget on celebrity endorsements, but of course that’s their decision. Also, have you ever worked in a hotel? > [@](#): > > When you look at all that he has accomplished (and really, without looking at the list on the Wiki page I don’t think you have any idea just how much that is) and the number of people who have benefitted from it and continue to benefit from it, I think the good far outweighs the bad in terms of his bankruptcies. No, not really, since he owes much of his fortune to screwing his stockholders and partners by declaring bankruptcy and sticking them with a lot of worthless equity, while cashing in whenevr his projects pay off. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/184 "2011-04-05T20:35:08Z")
What kind of bankruptcy? Is it project-by-project bankruptcy or has Trump gone Ch. 7 or 13 personal bankruptcy? Apologies if it was answered upthread. Question for his base: does accepting Trump’s use of the bankruptcy system mean that strategic bankruptcy (in general) is not a moral issue? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/185 "2011-04-06T04:43:13Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > What kind of bankruptcy? Is it project-by-project bankruptcy or has Trump gone Ch. 7 or 13 personal bankruptcy? Apologies if it was answered upthread. > > Question for his base: does accepting Trump’s use of the bankruptcy system mean that strategic bankruptcy (in general) is not a moral issue? Get with the program. Morals are what makes people with less money not screw people with more money. The law is how people with more money screw people with less money. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/186 "2011-04-06T05:16:02Z")
[Yakov Smirnoff] In capitalist America, bank robs you! [/YS] ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/187 "2011-04-06T13:10:00Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > Get with the program. Morals are what makes people with less money not screw people with more money. The law is how people with more money screw people with less money. Yep. Worrying about morals when dealing with big business is like walking into a gunfight without a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/188 "2011-04-06T13:20:42Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Ludacris 2012! Might at least make campaign-ticket bumper stickers more fun. “Obama feat. Biden 2012!” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/189 "2011-04-06T13:59:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Look, Diddy and Jay-Z are cool guys. They’ve accomplished a hell of a lot more than most of the people who’ve gained success in the field of music, and they certainly know how to make money and how to live well. But they are not businessmen in the sense that Trump is a businessman. Selling MacTavish sugar to put on his porridge is not a true capitalist transaction. So there! ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/190 "2011-04-07T00:05:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The thing about geniuses is that they often appear to be doing one thing when they’re really doing something else. > > I have no idea what Trump is up to with all this birther stuff, but you can bet your last dollar that he knows exactly what he’s doing. He may just be creating publicity for his business enterprises, or he may have determined that it’s a good dodge to keep from having to talk about more complex issues, but one way or another you can bet that he’ll come out ahead in some way because of it. He seems to be running for President. The fact that he expects to come out ahead on the deal isn’t exactly a reason to vote for him. The rest of us are supposed to come out ahead on the deal. Lex Luthor isn’t the ideal here. Not that I really believe that he’s that much of a genius to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/191 "2011-04-07T01:55:28Z")
Nobody with firing neurons actually is a birther. Trump is making an appeal to the base that he needs. If you want to win in the neoconservative reactionary Republican party, you need to have the nut fringe and the tea baggers on your side. They never learn and never let go of their bigotry. , But they are an important part of the Repubs. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/192 "2011-04-07T03:56:26Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It impresses me for several reasons, most of which I’ve already described upthread. He took the seed money he got from his father and used it as a springboard to much greater accomplishment than his father ever attained and in a much tougher market. There are a lot of people who inherit 30 million dollars and ten years later they still have 30 million dollars. If you start with 30 million dollars, what the fuck more do you need ? Seriously, who needs 2 billion ? What does 2 billion buy that 30 million doesn’t ? And more to the point, how is that kind of sheer greed admirable ? It’s fucked up, is what it is. You get a 30 million crib, you put some aside to work so that your kids have the same, then enjoy life. Toiling your ass off for even more doesn’t remotely make sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/193 "2011-04-07T04:33:45Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > If you start with 30 million dollars, what the fuck more do you need ? Seriously, who needs 2 billion ? What does 2 billion buy that 30 million doesn’t ? And more to the point, how is that kind of sheer greed admirable ? > > It’s fucked up, is what it is. You get a 30 million crib, you put some aside to work so that your kids have the same, then enjoy life. Toiling your ass off for even more doesn’t remotely make sense to me. Sticker price on a used Cessna Citation jet is about 3.7 million. But hey, it’s like an entry level jet. Do you want an entry level jet? No sir, you do not. A new Learjet 60 would be nice - about 13 million if you want the bare-bones model (but don’t be a cheap-ass, OK?) A 50 foot yacht will set you back about a million, but then when you go to dock it, there are a couple off assholes with 100 foot yachts that make yours look like a cheap toy. So a 100+ footer will run you 8 - 10 million. House? Don’t you mean houses? You can’t have only one house. Where would you stay when you travel? Don’t get me started. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/194 "2011-04-07T04:50:57Z")
So I guess every major movie, music and television star should just hang it up then? What about Steve Jobs and Bill Gates and Paul Allen? What about Richard Branson? What about the aforementioned Diddy and Jay-Z? Those two guys are a lot more ostentatious with their wealth than Donald Trump is, yet Trump is several times as wealthy. Trump doesn’t drink, he doesn’t smoke, and he doesn’t party on the Riviera with hot chicks and pour $500 bottles of Christal on the floor in order to flaunt his wealth. And then there’s Elton John. That guy spends $200,000 a year on _flowers_ and has homes all over Europe and the United States just so he can fly in and out of concerts and be home every night rather than staying in hotels. Why aren’t you whinging about the “greed” of those guys. Or is it that you only see greed when it comes to Republican businessmen? Anyway, to answer your question, people who have a lot of money but continue to work are almost always motivated by the satisfaction and enjoyment they derive from doing that work. Trump has said over and over again that he loves what he does. > [@Euphonious Polemic](#): > > Don’t get me started. Yes, that would be a very good idea. Your green monster is showing. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/195 "2011-04-07T05:45:32Z")
[Exclusive!!! Never-Before-Seen Photos of Mar-a-Lago | Donald Trump's Private Club in Palm Beach, Florida - Echo Fine Properties](http://www.jeffrealty.com/blog/2011/03/exclusive-never-before-seen-photos-of-mar-a-lago-donald-trumps-private-club-in-palm-beach-florida/) One of Trumps homes. Nope. not ostentatious. Just a comfortable little shack. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/196 "2011-04-07T07:03:07Z")
[This](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/02/26/article-1156582-042B15A40000044D-462_468x298.jpg) is George Clooney’s home on Lake Como in Italy. And [here](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/12/29/article-1342354-0C992E7C000005DC-887_634x336.jpg) is one at least six homes that Elton John owns. Are they greedy assholes too? As far as Mar-a-Lago goes, Trump bought it for the relative steal of ten million dollars in 1985 and spent millions more renovating it after the government (who had been bequeathed it by Marjorie Merryweather Post) had let it run down. He now operates it as a business. But be that as it may, I didn’t say Trump lived in hovels. His homes are undoubtedly nice, even lavish, but he’s not a party boy and he doesn’t spend his money frivolously. What is it with all the resentment toward people with money around here? You will not earn one dollar more or one dollar less over the course of your life because of the money Donald Trump has. Or because of the money that anyone else has. Money is not a finite resource. It’s not like there’s only so much to go around and if some people have a lot then it’s that much less for everyone else. You get what you earn, and what you earn is a direct reflection of the value of your efforts in the marketplace, and the amount of money someone else has has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/197 "2011-04-07T07:19:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Why aren’t you whinging about the “greed” of those guys. Or is it that you only see greed when it comes to Republican businessmen? Nope, I just don’t get it in general. Actually I sort of understand it when it comes to artists, because there the money is often a byproduct of the art and art is fun to make, whether it’s writing or belting it out. Dealing with music suits is much less fun of course. I also get the appeal of popularity and fame. Sometimes art is even a craving, something people feel they have to do (those don’t usually make much money however…) I don’t get it when it’s actual, y’know, _work_. Moreover, when it’s the kind of work that screws other people over as I understand Trump did or does, I find it hard to justify morally. Screwing people for a living when you’re struggling I can… not condone, but forgive maybe. Screwing people for fun and profit, however ? Play \*Diplomacy \*or something. > [@](#): > > Anyway, to answer your question, people who have a lot of money but continue to work are almost always motivated by the satisfaction and enjoyment they derive from doing that work. Trump has said over and over again that he loves what he does. That’s just alien to me. Even perverse: didn’t god make us work as punishment ? :p(smirk-worthy anecdote: the French word for work, “travail”, traces its etymology back to a Latin word for a method of torture. I love that.) ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/198 "2011-04-07T12:37:32Z")
Just to get this pitting back on track … Trump just went Full Birther on Morning Joe … even went as far as questioning the newspaper announcement of his birth. And saying that this may have been the biggest scam every perpetrated on the American people. You know you’re in trouble when you’ve got Patrick Buchanan questioning your sanity. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/199 "2011-04-07T12:43:43Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > Just to get this pitting back on track … Trump just went Full Birther on Morning Joe … even went as far as questioning the newspaper announcement of his birth. And saying that this may have been the biggest scam every perpetrated on the American people. > > You know you’re in trouble when you’ve got Patrick Buchanan questioning your sanity. Saw a similar statement on NBC’s Today show. Wow. This might be a very effective tactic. “I’m just saying there’s a possibility.” Of course, it’s devoid of any shred of intellectual honesty, or overall integrity. But it appears those qualities are not essential, in Trump’s view. More of a “nice to have,” perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/200 "2011-04-07T13:06:24Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > Just to get this pitting back on track … Trump just went Full Birther on Morning Joe … even went as far as questioning the newspaper announcement of his birth. And saying that this may have been the biggest scam every perpetrated on the American people. > > You know you’re in trouble when you’ve got Patrick Buchanan questioning your sanity. I saw him saying the same on O’Reilly. He said that after seeing what corpoate guys can do with documentation over the years he didn’t think that the paper announcements were credible. Buchanan and O’reilly have basically rolled their eyes at him. The guy is OUT THERE or trolling for attention or most likely IMO so ego driven that he’s backed himself into a corner and can’t just step out and say, my bad, instead he has to just keep being “The Donald” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044.md?page=11)