# Donald Trump is now a birther **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044 "2011-03-17T17:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/321 "2011-04-11T03:00:44Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Yeah, it’s accepted that he later said he “misspoke”. You then have to assess the credibility of his retraction, given he said on several [stations](http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/01/still_more_prevaricating_from.html) that Abercrombie had told him he couldn’t find it. You \*\*are \*\*really a moron. Even the American Thinker said that it remained to be seen if that was so, and then they added weasel words like “suspect”: “I _suspect_ that he repeated the Abercrombie claim on all 34 stations.”, well, not even them made a follow up to this moronic tale as Evans told later that he was mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/322 "2011-04-11T03:03:16Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Yeah, it’s accepted that he later said he “misspoke”. You then have to assess the credibility of his retraction, given he said on several [stations](http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/01/still_more_prevaricating_from.html) that Abercrombie had told him he couldn’t find it. OK, he lied repeatedly. Next? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/323 "2011-04-11T03:05:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Why on Earth would an “investigation” into its whereabouts even be necessary? One would think that one could simply go to where the archives are stored, look it up and view it. According to the ABC article, Abercrombie still hadn’t seen it but intended to, and I haven’t read since that he ever has. :dubious: The quote I posted came from the ABC article from the old post you linked that was made by **China Guy**. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/324 "2011-04-11T03:06:22Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Said reissue is not the original long form certificate, which even the governor of Hawaii says he wants to find in order to put the issue to rest. See the ABC linked article above. Please produce your own long form birth certificate before disparaging other’s inability to produce it. Oh wait? You can’t? Maybe that’s because ‘long form’ is a Birther delusion. > [@](#): > > But we’re hearing from multiple second-hand sources that it does exist, so why can’t it be: a) found; and b) produced? Even if the original form is found, it cannot be released as it is confidential medical information. > [@](#): > > This would go a long way toward settling the issue in the minds of people who have legitimate questions about it and to discredit at least some of the people driven by cynical political motivations. Or it will just feed into the delusions of nutcases who would declare everything to be ‘faked’ or ‘photoshopped’. The same game every self-impressed conspiracy nutcase plays from JFK to Truthers. When even idiotic archconservatives like Ann Coulter are saying that Birther claims do nothing but make the opposition to the POS look like cranks maybe it is time to fucking listen. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/325 "2011-04-11T03:12:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Said reissue is not the original long form certificate, which even the governor of Hawaii says he wants to find in order to put the issue to rest. On rereading your post (303) that I responded to (313), it is clear that I misunderstood your point. I retract the accusation of “moron”. The accusation of cynical political opportunist stands. You cannot produce your original birth certificate from the 50s from your home state any more than I can. I’m unclear why you are requiring Obama to do something that neither of us can do. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/326 "2011-04-11T03:21:35Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Please produce your own long form birth certificate before disparaging other’s inability to produce it. Oh wait? You can’t? Maybe that’s because ‘long form’ is a Birther delusion. “Long form”, “short form”, call it what you want. The question relates to the original document upon which the document Obama released was based. It’s the one whose location Hawaii’s governor had to launch an investigation into, and the one that he vowed to find and look at. You know, “A Rose By Any Other Name,” and all that. > [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Even if the original form is found, it cannot be released as it is confidential medical information. So you admit its existence and the fact that no one knows where it is? And like I said upthread, one would think that, given all the brouhaha over the subject, that Obama would ask that an exception be made in this case, or that he would request a judicial or state government exception be made in order to settle what is, after all, an important constitutional issue, and one which goes to the very legitimacy and legality of his presidency. > [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Or it will just feed into the delusions of nutcases who would declare everything to be ‘faked’ or ‘photoshopped’. The same game every self-impressed conspiracy nutcase plays from JFK to Truthers. When even idiotic archconservatives like Ann Coulter are saying that Birther claims do nothing but make the opposition to the POS look like cranks maybe it is time to fucking listen. Well, contrary to general belief, I don’t watch For or listen to Limbaugh so I don’t know what Coulter has said, but I’m happy to take your word for it. I imagine though that she was talking about the sort of people who I think could legitimately be called “birthers,” i.e., people making an issue of Obama’s birth for purely political reasons. What I’m attempting to show here is that sufficient grounds exist for a layperson to have legitimate doubts or suspicions about the issue, and that those who do can’t legitimately be called morons because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/327 "2011-04-11T03:21:36Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > You \*\*are \*\*really a moron. > > Even the American Thinker said that it remained to be seen if that was so, and then they added weasel words like “suspect”: “I _suspect_ that he repeated the Abercrombie claim on all 34 stations.”, well, not even them made a follow up to this moronic tale as Evans told later that he was mistaken. And I am surprised at how hostile and abusive you are. Calm down. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/328 "2011-04-11T03:25:09Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > And I am surprised at how hostile and abusive you are. Calm down. Your basic mistake is to assume that I’m upset or that I need to calm down. It does not change the fact that you are indeed a moron. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/329 "2011-04-11T03:25:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > That article does not pertain the the original Certificate of Live Birth and you know it. For one thing, if releasing it is a violation of privacy laws, how was FactCheck able to look at and photograph it? And if it was the original document, to be stored in secret ad infinitum, how come FactCheck states that it resides at Obama’s residence in Chicago? > > People already know that the standard document, routinely issued upon a citizen’s request for a birth certificate, has already been made public. The question in the minds of many is why is there so much confusion as to where the original certificate of live birth resides, and why it hasn’t been made public…and frankly, why some people such as yourself are so eager to insist that the document you refer to is that absolute final resolution to the issue. > > Believe it or not, there are people out there who are most certainly not morons but who do not follow these issues all that closely because they have families and lives, who hear or read about how the original can’t be found or how they’re supposed to take some nurse’s word for its existence, or how the governor of Hawaii is determined to “get to the bottom” of where it is and look at it for himself, and wonder quite logically if there aren’t shenanigans of some sort going on. > > I think the issue would have been settled in the minds of those people long ago if the original certificate of live birth had produced to begin with rather than submerged in all this mystery. No it would not. You would weasel out of that. The proof he gave is legal and binding. But only bigoted birthers can stay the course. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/330 "2011-04-11T03:26:58Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > On rereading your post (303) that I responded to (313), it is clear that I misunderstood your point. I retract the accusation of “moron”. Thank you. > [@Frank](#): > > The accusation of cynical political opportunist stands. You cannot produce your original birth certificate from the 50s from your home state any more than I can. I’m unclear why you are requiring Obama to do something that neither of us can do. The question isn’t whether or not I could produce my original form. I’m not the President of the United States and an important constitutional question doesn’t ride on my being able to do so. Plus, the fact that I may not be able to produce my own record does not mean that it doesn’t exist, nor does it mean that Obama’s doesn’t exist. In fact, if the some of Hawaii’s medical employees and its governor are to be believed, there is no question that it exists. The question is: where is it, and why can’t it be independently varified? And just for the record, I’m not requiring Obama to produce his. I’m simply presenting facts and reasons as to why a person might legitimately have questions about this issue without automatically qualifying for moronship. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/331 "2011-04-11T03:27:28Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Your basic mistake is to assume that I’m upset or that I need to calm down. > > It does not change the fact that you are indeed a moron. 😛 So what does that make you? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/332 "2011-04-11T03:30:14Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > “Long form”, “short form”, call it what you want. The question relates to the original document upon which the document Obama released was based. It’s the one whose location Hawaii’s governor had to launch an investigation into, and the one that he vowed to find and look at. You know, “A Rose By Any Other Name,” and all that. Then Abercrombie was an idiot to play this game. Almost all states put their files into computers decades ago. If I asked for a copy of my birth certificate today I’d get almost the same damn thing as has been produced. > [@](#): > > So you admit its existence and the fact that no one knows where it is? How the fuck do you get that from what I wrote? Quit smoking whatever you are smoking. > [@](#): > > And like I said upthread, one would think that, given all the brouhaha over the subject, that Obama would ask that an exception be made in this case, or that he would request a judicial or state government exception be made in order to settle what is, after all, an important constitutional issue, and one which goes to the very legitimacy and legality of his presidency. And Truthers just want a “special investigation” to look into their claims that Bush orchestrated 9-11. Why should we pander to either set of cranktards? That aside, The President is the President of a Democracy (or Republic if you want to be mega-pedandtic) not a dictator. He does not casually ask for exemptions to rules put in place by states and support by Federal guidelines to protect the medical history of individuals. I’d be very uncomfortable if the Prez could just break those rules, even for his own medical data. > [@](#): > > Well, contrary to general belief, I don’t watch For or listen to Limbaugh so I don’t know what Coulter has said, but I’m happy to take your word for it. I imagine though that she was talking about the sort of people who I think could legitimately be called “birthers,” i.e., people making an issue of Obama’s birth for purely political reasons. What I’m attempting to show here is that sufficient grounds exist for a layperson to have legitimate doubts or suspicions about the issue, and that those who do can’t legitimately be called morons because of it. Then you have failed as all you managed to do was muddy the waters with this same shit that has been refuted as far back as 2008. I may loathe Coulter but the fact is when piece of meat is so rotten a mangy dog won’t eat it…draw your own conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/333 "2011-04-11T03:31:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And like I said upthread, one would think that, given all the brouhaha over the subject, that Obama would ask that an exception be made in this case, or that he would request a judicial or state government exception be made in order to settle what is, after all, an important constitutional issue, and one which goes to the very legitimacy and legality of his presidency. Once again, he does not need to, congress already voted unanimously to declare that he was born in Hawaii, only if the stupid spreads without control and congress impeachs Obama because of this, is that then I think then congress could subpoena the evidence. A fat chance to an already moot point. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/334 "2011-04-11T03:31:17Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > No it would not. You would weasel out of that. The proof he gave is legal and binding. So far as I know, nobody is contending that the document Obama has released isn’t legal and binding. The questions are: what is contained in the document upon which it is based; why all the mystery surrounding its location; and why can’t it be independently verified? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/335 "2011-04-11T03:33:30Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > So what does that make you? 😛 A calm [del]kiwi[/del] guanaco. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/336 "2011-04-11T03:34:52Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Once again, he does not need to, congress already voted unanimously to declare that he was born in Hawaii, only if the stupid spreads without control and congress impeachs Obama because of this, is that then I think then congress could subpoena the evidence. > > A fat chance to an already moot point. I’m aware that he doesn’t need to. I’m also aware that he has been legally declared qualified to hold office. Again, what I’m doing is presenting evidence as to why people might have unanswered questions about the issue without that necessarily meaning that they have unscrupulous political motives or are morons. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/337 "2011-04-11T03:35:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So far as I know, nobody is contending that the document Obama has released isn’t legal and binding. The questions are: what is contained in the document upon which it is based; why all the mystery surrounding its location; and why can’t it be independently verified? The former Republican governor of Hawaii verified that the document is in the archives and that she had seen it. Some Hawaii official involved in records did as well. They know where it is. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/338 "2011-04-11T03:35:55Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Yeah, it’s accepted that he later said he “misspoke”. You then have to assess the credibility of his retraction, given he said on several [stations](http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/01/still_more_prevaricating_from.html) that Abercrombie had told him he couldn’t find it. Why should we believe you, when you’re not even a citizen of the United States? What does the foreign power that you are beholden to expect to gain from these “arguments” of yours? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/339 "2011-04-11T03:36:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > One would think that, instead of having a nurse or the governor state that they had seen it and to take their word on its existence, the document would simply be produced. I am going to use small words now. It is against the law for the state to show this certificate to anyone but Barack Obama and state personnel who have a reason to see it. Barack Obama can not copy it when shown to show to other people. The state personnel can not copy it when shown to show to other people. State personnel have seen this document and are willing to verify it exists. How do you expect this document to be legally produced? Some mysterious ‘suck’ that the President has? Please define this ‘suck’. Why does this document need to be produced? It exists, we know it exists. The President has produced a certificate that certifies it exists. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/340 "2011-04-11T03:38:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So far as I know, nobody is contending that the document Obama has released isn’t legal and binding. The questions are: what is contained in the document upon which it is based; WTF do you think it contains?! Do you really think its going to say RELIGION: GODAMN HEATHEN MUSLIM on it? > [@](#): > > why all the mystery surrounding its location; and why can’t it be independently verified? In all likelyhood it has been destroyed when Hawaii went to a computerized system. Not really a mystery. If a copy survived, big deal. The computer file is what is important. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044.md?page=18)