# Donald Trump is now a birther **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044 "2011-03-17T17:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/361 "2011-04-11T11:46:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So far as I know, nobody is contending that the document Obama has released isn’t legal and binding. The questions are: what is contained in the document upon which it is based; why all the mystery surrounding its location; and why can’t it be independently verified? To be fair, the people suggesting that the original document contains something embarrassing but not disqualifying are somewhat less cookoo than the hard-core Birthers. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/362 "2011-04-11T11:51:33Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > For what it’s worth, I’m not on a side either yours or the other. I just have this pesky allergy to bullshit and this birther nonsense is making my sinuses just burn. > > Oh fuck you. I’m done pretending this “reasonable” stance you’re taking is anything other than either cowardice or a knee jerk reaction because you hate liberals and the liberals think he was born in this country. Now if you want to go on like there is a reasonable side to the birther issue, go right ahead. Just know that you aren’t being intelligent by “just asking questions” and “suggesting that the concerns are perfectly valid.” They aren’t. Not one bit. The concerns are being held by partisan hacks for political gain and morons who still can’t believe that a black guy is running the country. > > Being a birther is just as reasonable as being an intelligent design idiot or a 9/11 truth movement lunatic. It’s a denial of reality even as it’s slapping you in the face. It’s as bad as saying that there are questions about gravity. I don’t even think that people pushing such a concept are worthy of calm and reasoned debate as all it does is give them a stage to further their “questions.” > > TLDR: Birther (or even one "just asking questions)=complete fucking idiot worthy of nothing but scorn. Now that I am awake again to read SA’s 3-4 'this is my last post’s, I am simply going to echo Harborwolf’s sentiments. +1 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/363 "2011-04-11T11:53:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And like I said upthread, one would think that, given all the brouhaha over the subject, that Obama would ask that an exception be made in this case One would think that, if one was unclear on the distinction between a “president” and a “king”. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/364 "2011-04-11T11:54:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I would try to break all that down into more readable paragraphs but the Ambien pill I took half an hour ago is making the typing of even these words without error difficult enough. I didn’t notice any difference from your usually posts. Perhaps that explains a lot. Posting while Ambiened. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/365 "2011-04-11T11:56:56Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I find it ironic that on a board devoted to the elimination of ignorance, it should be considered that the circumstances around Obama’s birth, be they suspicions as to where he was born or disadvantageous information on his original certificate of live birth, should be considered off limits for questions, with only insults and derision considered the appropriate response should anyone dare to voice these questions or suspicions. Sorry, SA, but have you noticed that Truther threads get the same level of treatment? Sometimes you have to fight ignorance by shaming those who spew it. So stick your appeal to pity somewhere else. > [@](#): > > On a site truly devoted to fighting ignorance, I would think that all comers would be welcome and that anytime a question might be raised for which there is a conclusive answer, that answer would be made. And in the event that the question can’t be answered, that should be acknowledged as unsettled and therefore open to honest debate. Blah, blah, blah. > [@](#): > > There are legitimate questions to be asked about the circumstances of Obama’s birth, No, there aren’t. If you bothered reading this thread instead of JAQing off and pontificating you would see that the questions are inventions. > [@](#): > > and it must be considered that at least some people are not necessarily guided by political motivations or stupidity in asking them, That simply is not true. (Rest of SA’s questions that have been answered multiple times in this thread snipped) ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/366 "2011-04-11T13:22:51Z")
In SA’s case, I can accept that it is not political motivations guiding his asking of the questions. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/367 "2011-04-11T15:28:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …with idea in mind of fighting ignorance without name-calling (for as we all know, if a person can’t ask they can’t learn, can they, and since name-calling serves only to inhibit or eliminate inquisitive participation, it runs counter to the boards stated goal of fighting ignorance. I mean, how can ignorance be fought if it can’t even be raised). I find it interesting to gauge the ignorance level by things like how quickly the insults start and the level of vehemence applied. Just an observation. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/368 "2011-04-11T15:44:43Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > Where do _you_ believe Barack Obama was born? > [ol] > [li]Hawaii[/li][li]Kenya[/li][li]Somewhere else outside the U.S.A.[/li][/ol] > > Just curious. Should be an easy question to answer. Re-posted, hoping for an answer. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/369 "2011-04-11T16:08:40Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > To be fair, the people suggesting that the original document contains something embarrassing but not disqualifying are somewhat less cookoo than the hard-core Birthers. If no one is allowed to see it, how would they know? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/370 "2011-04-11T16:17:55Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > Where do _you_ believe Barack Obama was born? > [ol] > [li]Hawaii[/li][li]Kenya[/li][li]Somewhere else outside the U.S.A.[/li][/ol] > > Just curious. Should be an easy question to answer. What if he thinks he was born in the US, but not in Hawaii? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/371 "2011-04-11T17:54:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > [A]nd four, (and perhaps most importantly) what information does it contain? Why is that perhaps the most important? What could possibly be on it that has any bearing on eligibility? ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/372 "2011-04-11T17:57:59Z")
You guys know he’s just playing with you, right? He hits “Submit Reply” and giggles hysterically. Unless anybody has anything more to add about Donald Trump, I think we’re just spinning our wheels here. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/373 "2011-04-11T18:04:28Z")
I’m with conservatives, I miss the old days when we knew that morally it made more sense to tax the wealthy at a higher tax rate, and that we would only give tax breaks on capital gains that had been held for a significant period of time: not rewarding speculators with lower tax rates than wage earners like we do these days. I appreciate that back then people understood the importance of education and provided schools with enough money to not only teach the basics, but also art and music. I miss the days when we built up an infrastructure that would enable future generations to move goods economically, when Unions were strong and provided a counterbalance to the power of large companies, and when we invested in National Parks, public works of art and other “non-essentials” to make our life on this planet more pleasant. Those were the good old days, but now we have radical elements that are spitting on all that tradition. They seek to destroy the public education system and let our infrastructure fall apart. They enjoyed the benefits that their parents sacrificed for and now refuse to provide the same for their children. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/374 "2011-04-11T18:17:34Z")
\ if only being “eligible” was more of a guarantee to being “elected.” ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/375 "2011-04-11T18:28:57Z")
Hey Starving Artist, I’d still like to know where you heard that Abercrombie couldn’t find the certificate. You do know that that’s a lie, right? > **[PolitiFact - State Rep. Leo Berman says Hawaii governor can't find anything...](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2011/feb/27/leo-berman/state-rep-leo-berman-says-hawaii-governor-cant-fin/)** > > CORRECTION, 9:38 a.m. Feb. 27, 2011: Our initial posted article had an incorrect first reference to the fact-checking en This is simply an example of conservative misinformation. Why don’t you question things? Do you know that conservative media regularly lies to you? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/376 "2011-04-11T18:30:10Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > \ if only being “eligible” was more of a guarantee to being “elected.” Are you saying he isn’t eligible? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/377 "2011-04-11T19:13:51Z")
Actually, **SA** has answered the “where do you think Obama was born” question in previous threads on this subject. His answer, IIRC (and please someone correct me if I’m wrong), was something akin to “I have no idea; I, and everyone else, won’t know for sure until I see the original birth certificate.” ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/378 "2011-04-11T19:56:03Z")
I’ve found that there are a curious number of birthers who also go on and on about states’ rights. I’m always extremely surprised that they don’t find the right of a state to determine the validity of its own records (as enshrined in the Constitution and in other federal law) to be an important component of state sovereignty. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/379 "2011-04-11T20:59:43Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I’ve found that there are a curious number of birthers who also go on and on about states’ rights. I’m always extremely surprised that they don’t find the right of a state to determine the validity of its own records (as enshrined in the Constitution and in other federal law) to be an important component of state sovereignty. This shouldn’t surprise you at all. Think about it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/380 "2011-04-11T21:07:30Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Actually, **SA** has answered the “where do you think Obama was born” question in previous threads on this subject. His answer, IIRC (and please someone correct me if I’m wrong), was something akin to “I have no idea; I, and everyone else, won’t know for sure until I see the original birth certificate.” That’s why the CORRECT question to ask is _“Where was President Obama born?”_ It’s a fact on the public record, and phrasing it like it’s a matter of opinion plays the birthers’ game by legitimizing the notion that it _is_ a matter of opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044.md?page=20)