# Donald Trump is now a birther **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044 "2011-03-17T17:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/401 "2011-04-12T03:30:27Z")
If it makes you feel better, my opinion of you isn’t informed by your stance on Birtherism in the least. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/402 "2011-04-12T03:35:19Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > A thing of beauty, these two questions together. That was classic **Starkers** , but this… > [@](#): > > …In other words, I want to ask him why it’s more important to be weird than to have an almost complete moral breakdown of society?.. …is going into his Greatest Hits, Vol. 1 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/403 "2011-04-12T03:35:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Thanks for the advice, **Dio** , but I’m not defending “birthers”, I’m defending the intelligence and integrity of people who are too busy trying to earn a living and shuttle their kids back and forth between soccer games and play rehearsals to keep up with things like people on this board do, and who hear things like “Obama’s grandmother said he was born in Kenya” only to be followed by statements that something was lost in translation, and they hear of a document that may or may not have bearing upon the circumstances of Obama’s birth, and some people say they have seen it but others can’t find it and besides no one could look at it even if it was found, and then wonder if perhaps there’s something on that document that the powers that be don’t want you to see. Or perhaps something that a low-level functionary didn’t want them to see and trashed or deliberately misfiled it. Who know? All we know for sure is that nobody seems to know where it is or what information it contains that is not on the reissued birth certificate. Since you know what the birthers think is not true and they fail to learn anything after explaining the facts again and again… \*\*What \*\*intelligence are you defending? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/404 "2011-04-12T03:56:46Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That was classic **Starkers** , but this… > …is going into his Greatest Hits, Vol. 1 Wait! Wait! I didn’t say anything about how much you guys fucked up the schools and ruined the economy and are trying to turn us into a nation of dependent nanny-state weiners. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/405 "2011-04-12T06:56:17Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You know how when lying liars who lie don’t have a rebuttal for you’ve said so they make up something else and then accuse you of lying because of what they made up? I have shown your lie. I know it, you know it, and everybody else knows it. Your transparent denial does nothing to conceal your pants on fire. Go back to bed, you pathetic pill-popper. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/406 "2011-04-12T09:54:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I find it telling that you people are so eager to label me a birther. That way you can - as is your typical style - simply dismiss the points I’ve raised and pretend they don’t exist by virtue of calling me a moron. > > So I ask, what lies have I swallowed? Is it not true that Governor Abercrombie, having vowed to take a look at the document himself, launched an investigation into its whereabouts? It is not true that this investigation oddly either found it or found another document pointing to it? And is it not true that the investigation apparently didn’t find it or Governor Abercrombie would have verified its existence by now? Is it not true that some second-hand information says it exists, yet other second-hand information suggests it is either lost or pointed to but not found, and that at any rate all we have to go on as to its existence is second-hand information by state employees? Is it not true that the original document differs in some way from the birth certificate people get when they ask for one, as is evident from the fact that Hawaii among other state legislatures have forbidden their release? Is it not true that Obama appears to have done nothing to try to get the document - or at least its contents - released? And is it not true that the average person, upon hearing of a document concerning the birth of the president which some people say they’ve seen but others mysteriously can’t find, and whose contents by law can’t be released to the public, would find at least reasonable grounds for, if not suspicion, at least curiosity about where it is and what it contains? > > Now, if anyone would like to point out any factual lies I’ve told in this thread, I’d like to hear what they are. Put up, or admit you’re holding an empty sack. I’m not eager to label you a birther. I’m not calling you a liar. I’m telling you that you are wrong and that you are an idiot. I’m telling you that holding any citizen to a higher standard of proof of citizenship because a few crazy people that have a problem with the concept of reality is fucked up. So just in case I wasn’t clear. You’re wrong. The questions aren’t reasonable or logical as they have been fucking answered already. Since you think they are reasonable and are taking the word of whackadoos over pretty much the rest of the planet, you’re a fucking idiot. I hope that clarifies things for you, you mouthbreathing moron. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/407 "2011-04-12T10:55:22Z")
I don’t suppose it occurs to you guys that by resorting to unsubstantiated claims that the questions and observations I post are wrong, and resorting to calling me names based upon the frustration you obviously feel at not being able to refute them, just makes you look childish and desperate. 😃 The reason Obama has been called upon to prove his citizenship where no one else has is because of time he spent in Kenya as a child and because right or wrong his grandmother has been quoted as saying he was born there. Questions arise further because of mysteries surrounding his original certificate of live birth in Hawaii, its location and content. Frankly, you have to consider that conservatives don’t trust liberals. They even think liberals might lie or engage in chicanery if it profits them to do so. In fact, they definately think that. So they want more than mere liberal assurances that everything is on the up and up, and they’re less likely to accept certain things as incontrovertible proof, should it benefit the liberal contingent, than are their liberal counterparts. Again, this is not how I necessarily feel in regard to this issue. It’s merely my take on what I have been able to gather are the concerns and questions of some of the the nation’s populace with regard to this issue. If you want to go ahead and pretend that I’m a birther or that I’m defending birthers, then go ahead and knock yourselves out. The reality is that I’m only trying to fight ignorance and explain the apparently perplexing reasons why honest and intelligent people can have questions regarding Obama’s background and original birth certificate without it necessarily making them “birthers”, who I agree are cynically making an issue of the subject primarily for political purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/408 "2011-04-12T11:05:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I don’t suppose it occurs to you guys that by resorting to unsubstantiated claims that the questions and observations I post are wrong, and resorting to calling me names based upon the frustration you obviously feel at not being able to refute them, just makes you look childish and desperate. 😃 No. You’re wrong. You’re just too stupid to admit it. And calling someone childish and desperate is name calling. By the same standards that every other person in America is held to, Obama is an american citizen. You and your little buddies want extra special proof. Not going to happen. Just because you will not admit that the matter is settled doesn’t mean that it is not settled. > [@](#): > > The reason Obama has been called upon to prove his citizenship where no one else has is because of time he spent in Kenya as a child and because right or wrong his grandmother has been quoted as saying he was born there. Questions arise further because of mysteries surrounding his original certificate of live birth in Hawaii, its location and content. The reason he has been called upon to provide double super secret proof of citizenship is because an insignificant part of the population can’t believe that their side lost without the other side cheating. Or they’re racist. Or stupid. Possibly all three. Which one are you? > [@](#): > > Frankly, you have to consider that conservatives don’t trust liberals. They even think liberals might lie or engage in chicanery if it profits them to do so. In fact, they definately think that. So they want more than mere liberal assurances that everything is on the up and up, and they’re less likely to accept certain things as incontrovertible proof, should it benefit the liberal contingent, than are their liberal counterparts. If political party matters so much to them that they will not trust anyone that identifies as a liberal, they should have their heads examined…or simply removed. They should at least not be allowed near children to prevent their insane views on life from spreading. > [@](#): > > Again, this is not how I necessarily feel in regard to this issue. It’s merely my take on what I have been able to gather are the concerns and questions of some of the the nation’s populace with regard to this issue. If you want to go ahead and pretend that I’m a birther or that I’m defending birthers, then go ahead and knock yourselves out. The reality is that I’m only trying to fight ignorance and explain the apparently perplexing reasons why honest and intelligent people can have questions regarding Obama’s background and original birth certificate without it necessarily making them “birthers”, who I agree are cynically making an issue of the subject primarily for political purposes. You’re not fighting ignorance. You’re choosing ignorance, and so are they. You’re putting your empty little head in the sand and choosing to pretend that reality doesn’t exist because it makes you feel special. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/409 "2011-04-12T11:25:49Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > You’re not fighting ignorance. You’re choosing ignorance, and so are they. You’re putting your empty little head in the sand and choosing to pretend that reality doesn’t exist because it makes you feel special. Good luck with that. Nope, like I said before, I don’t give a shit. Obama is the president and that’s that. I’m fine with it just like I thought liberals whingebags should be fine with the Supreme Court’s decision on the the 2000 election and GWB’s subsequent legal status to serve as president. I just get tired of liberal douchebags calling people morons for no reason other than that they disagree with them. And now it’s time for me to pop a pill. Goodnight, **Harbor**. Goodnight, **Fear**. Y’all have a good day now, y’hear? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/410 "2011-04-12T11:56:42Z")
> [@](#): > > I just get tired of liberal douchebags calling people morons for no reason other than that they disagree with them. And I get tired of partisan fuckheads making excuses, handwaving, tu quoque arguments, and aiding conspiracy bullshit rather than make the effort to correct the people on their own side who are making unbelievably idiotic errors that will cost them. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/411 "2011-04-12T11:59:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The reason Obama has been called upon to prove his citizenship where no one else has is because of time he spent in Kenya as a child and because right or wrong his grandmother has been quoted as saying he was born there. This is another lie. Obama did not spend time in Kenya as a child. [The first time he visited Kenya](http://articles.cnn.com/2008-01-07/politics/kenya.obama.relatives_1_sarah-onyango-obama-kenya-mama-sarah?_s=PM:POLITICS) was after his father died in 1982. Liar. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/412 "2011-04-12T13:11:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …resorting to calling me names based upon the frustration you obviously feel at not being able to refute them, just makes you look childish and desperate. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …liberals whingebags… … liberal douchebags… Commentary would be superfluous if the SDMB allowed posts consisting only of quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/413 "2011-04-12T13:15:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The reason Obama has been called upon to prove his citizenship where no one else has is because of time he spent in Kenya as a child and because right or wrong his grandmother has been quoted as saying he was born there. Questions arise further because of mysteries surrounding his original certificate of live birth in Hawaii, its location and content. All three of these statements are factually incorrect. Obama never went to Kenya until he was an adult. His grandmother was never quoted as saying he was born in Kenya (she actually said emphatically that he was born in Hawaii), and there are no “mysteries” surrounding his birth certificate in Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/414 "2011-04-12T13:32:10Z")
“I love it when a plan comes together… bwah ha, haaa!” ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/415 "2011-04-12T14:04:33Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Again, this is not how I necessarily feel in regard to this issue. It’s merely my take on what I have been able to gather are the concerns and questions of some of the the nation’s populace with regard to this issue. If you want to go ahead and pretend that I’m a birther or that I’m defending birthers, then go ahead and knock yourselves out. But you are defending birthers. In fact, in the very same paragraph in which made that made statement, you go on to defend them again. > [@](#): > > The reality is that I’m only trying to fight ignorance and explain the apparently perplexing reasons why honest and intelligent people can have questions regarding Obama’s background and original birth certificate without it necessarily making them “birthers”, who I agree are cynically making an issue of the subject primarily for political purposes. Tell us, just what the fuck do you think a birther is? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/416 "2011-04-12T14:09:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Frankly, you have to consider that conservatives don’t trust liberals. They even think liberals might lie or engage in chicanery if it profits them to do so. In fact, they definately think that. So the conservatives have a world view that is based on suspicion of others, black and white (us versus them) thinking and clearly a large measure of projection ("I would certainly engage in chicanery to reach my goals, so the “other side” must do the same). I think you have explained a lot with this. Oh, and just to make it clear, > [@](#): > > Obama never went to Kenya until he was an adult. His grandmother was never quoted as saying he was born in Kenya (she actually said emphatically that he was born in Hawaii), and there are no “mysteries” surrounding his birth certificate in Hawaii. That you continue to be “just asking questions” about these proven facts shows that you are either trolling to get a reaction or are somehow immune to logic. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/417 "2011-04-12T14:38:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > … His grandmother was never quoted as saying he was born in Kenya … Always forgotten in that is [Barack Hussein Obama II](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama)’s father is [Barack Hussein Obama Sr.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama,_Sr.). So there’s always the _possibility_ she didn’t realize which Barack was being referred to. Noting that, according to Wikipedia, Barack Obama was born in the Rachuonyo District, on the shores of Lake Victoria just outside Kendu Bay, Kenya Colony and not Mombasa. The question must be asked, why is Barack Obama’s birthplace a mystery and is Wikipedia part of the cover-up? 😃 CMC fnord! 'Course when The Truth™ about O’s real Dad, [Jimi Hendrix](http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/04/07/birther_photoshop_fail/index.html) :eek:, finally comes out all these questions will be moot! ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/418 "2011-04-12T15:25:27Z")
Have the circumstances regarding Glenn Beck and that woman he is alleged to have killed in the 70s ever been cleared up? ---
**Author:** ![Ograbme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Ograbme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ograbme)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/419 "2011-04-12T15:26:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > His grandmother was never quoted as saying he was born in Kenya She was _quoted_ as saying that…by dishonest shitstains and psychopaths. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/420 "2011-04-12T15:28:20Z")
Never. And it would be so easy for him to put that issue to est. It’s strange that he’s avoided it so long. I heard Glenn Beck has spent $50 million to cover this thing up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044.md?page=22)