# Donald Trump is now a birther **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044 "2011-03-17T17:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/421 "2011-04-12T15:36:22Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I find it telling that you people are so eager to label me a birther. That way you can - as is your typical style - simply dismiss the points I’ve raised and pretend they don’t exist by virtue of calling me a moron. Okay, first off, the reason I call you a moron is that you ignore factual evidence and keep believing lies that make you feel good. I don’t know if that falls under the technical definition of moron, but it seems to suit conversational use. > [@](#): > > So I ask, what lies have I swallowed? Is it not true that Governor Abercrombie, having vowed to take a look at the document himself, launched an investigation into its whereabouts? No, it is not true. You are incorrect about this because you believed some right-wing liar. [ > [@Politifact](#): > > Rewind: Berman didn’t pinpoint where he heard or read that Hawaii’s governor couldn’t find proof of Obama’s birthplace. We combed published reports, finding no proof Abercrombie said that. We rate Berman’s statement **False**. ]([PolitiFact | State Rep. Leo Berman says Hawaii governor can't find anything that says Obama was born in Hawaii](http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/feb/27/leo-berman/state-rep-leo-berman-says-hawaii-governor-cant-fin/)) Read that article. Read it carefully. Abercrombie never said he couldn’t find the file, the former Republican Governor and state officials have all said they personally saw the form. It can’t be released to the general public due to state law. End of line. You are a liar if you keep stating this because you have been shown the factual evidence. > [@](#): > > Is it not true that Obama appears to have done nothing to try to get the document - or at least its contents - released? Obama can’t get it released. It’s a state law that keeps in confidential. He can go in and see it, but if he wants a copy, he gets the certificate that he posted online. You have been told the factual information. If you keep saying this you are a liar. > [@](#): > > And is it not true that the average person, upon hearing of a document concerning the birth of the president which some people say they’ve seen but others mysteriously can’t find, and whose contents by law can’t be released to the public, would find at least reasonable grounds for, if not suspicion, at least curiosity about where it is and what it contains? No. Because a reasonable person would know that he has shown his birth certificate. It is online. The desire to get the state-only version from the archives is a desperate attempt by racists, partisans and liars to attack the president. > [@](#): > > Now, if anyone would like to point out any factual lies I’ve told in this thread, I’d like to hear what they are. Put up, or admit you’re holding an empty sack. Please read the cited and stop your campaign of disinformation you sickening, lying sack of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/422 "2011-04-12T15:42:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I don’t suppose it occurs to you guys that by resorting to unsubstantiated claims that the questions and observations I post are wrong, and resorting to calling me names based upon the frustration you obviously feel at not being able to refute them, just makes you look childish and desperate. 😃 You are the one acting childish. Because all the information I posted in my immediately previous post has already been put in this thread. You are uninformed and are too lazy to take the minor steps to remedy your ignorance. > [@](#): > > The reason Obama has been called upon to prove his citizenship where no one else has is because of time he spent in Kenya as a child Obama didn’t spend time in Kenya as a child. He lived in Indonesia for a few years with his step-father. He didn’t spend time in Kenya as a child. He didn’t spend time in Kenya as a child. By the way, he didn’t spend time in Kenya as a child. You are a liar if you keep repeating that. > [@](#): > > and because right or wrong his grandmother has been quoted as saying he was born there. Only by liars. She was mistranslated and it was immediately corrected. This is a fact. You need to learn to accept facts and incorporate them into your worldview. > [@](#): > > Questions arise further because of mysteries surrounding his original certificate of live birth in Hawaii, its location and content. There are no questions. You have been misinformed because there is a wing of the media that caters to simpletons like yourself with lies and misinformation to comfort you. > [@](#): > > Frankly, you have to consider that conservatives don’t trust liberals. They even think liberals might lie or engage in chicanery if it profits them to do so. In fact, they definately think that. So they want more than mere liberal assurances that everything is on the up and up, and they’re less likely to accept certain things as incontrovertible proof, should it benefit the liberal contingent, than are their liberal counterparts. > > Again, this is not how I necessarily feel in regard to this issue. It’s merely my take on what I have been able to gather are the concerns and questions of some of the the nation’s populace with regard to this issue. If you want to go ahead and pretend that I’m a birther or that I’m defending birthers, then go ahead and knock yourselves out. The reality is that I’m only trying to fight ignorance and explain the apparently perplexing reasons why honest and intelligent people can have questions regarding Obama’s background and original birth certificate without it necessarily making them “birthers”, who I agree are cynically making an issue of the subject primarily for political purposes. You live in a fantasy world. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/423 "2011-04-12T15:49:59Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The source of most of Trump’s birther nonsense, including the “$2 million spent to hide Obama’s past” is World Net Daily. The publisher today [admitted they publish misinformation](http://www.salon.com/news/politics/birthers/?story=/politics/war_room/2011/04/11/joseph_farah_wnd_misinformation), then excused it by saying everybody does it. The latest includes photoshopping Obama’s grandparents parents out of a picture, then claiming it was the original that proved Obama was the one faking pictures. That’s pretty fucking disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/424 "2011-04-12T15:54:22Z")
I find it amusing that SA used liberal complaints about the 2000 Election SCOTUS decision as a tu quoque in this argument. I have to think: “really”? I mean right now Trump and Palin are both actively pandering to the Birther crowd. Now, my memory may be fuzzy but I cannot recall any major Democratic candidate in 2004 making a major issue out of the SCOTUS 2000 election decision. Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/425 "2011-04-12T15:56:36Z")
The “governor can’t find the birth certificate” canard had its basis in a single wnd article which claimed only that the Governor “…did not report to the newspaper that he or the Hawaii Department of Health had found Obama’s long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate. The governor only suggested his investigations to date had identified an unspecified listing or notation of Obama’s birth that someone had made in the state archives.” I.e the governor hasn’t announced that he’s found it, ergo he must not have been _able_ to find it. This story was exacerbated by morning talk radio hoax (here in the Twin Cities) in which a guy claiming to be a “close friend” of Ambecrombie’s said that Abercrombie had told him he couldn’t find the certificate. That guy later admitted he had not spoken to Ambercrombie since he was Governor and was only riffing on the internet rumors. In point of fact, Abercrombie never said he couldn’t find the Birth certificate, but that the stae law of Hawaii wouldn’t let him release any more information about it. Obama himself also has no power to have this legendary “long form” birth certificate released. All he can do is get the “Certificate of Live Birth” that everybody else gets. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/426 "2011-04-12T16:18:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Thanks for the advice, **Dio** , but I’m not defending “birthers”, I’m defending the intelligence and integrity of people who are too busy trying to earn a living and shuttle their kids back and forth between soccer games and play rehearsals to keep up with things like people on this board do, and who hear things like “Obama’s grandmother said he was born in Kenya” only to be followed by statements that something was lost in translation, and they hear of a document that may or may not have bearing upon the circumstances of Obama’s birth, and some people say they have seen it but others can’t find it and besides no one could look at it even if it was found, and then wonder if perhaps there’s something on that document that the powers that be don’t want you to see. Or perhaps something that a low-level functionary didn’t want them to see and trashed or deliberately misfiled it. Who know? All we know for sure is that nobody seems to know where it is or what information it contains that is not on the reissued birth certificate. So why do you think the schlub who doesn’t have time to study the issue has heard all these rumors? It’s because these rumors are repeated by lying liars. There’s no need for a presidential candidate to produce a birth certificate. No presidential candidate other than Barack Obama has been asked to produce one. The constitutional question of whether a candidate fulfills the criteria for presidency–that they are a natural born citizen, 35 years of age, and have resided within the United States for 14 years–is up to the electoral authorities of the various states. If a candidate does not fulfill the criteria, the state electoral authority (typically the Secretary of State) won’t include that candidate on the ballot. The next layer of accountability is the voters. They can vote against a candidate that doesn’t fulfill the requirements. The next layer of accountability is the electoral college. They can refuse to vote for a candidate that isn’t eligible even though that candidate won the election. The next layer is congress, congress can refuse to certify the election of an ineligible candidate. And if later the inelibibility comes to light, Congress can impeach the president. Obviously, none of those things happened. Obama got on the ballot in all 50 states. A majority of voters voted for him. The electoral college voted for him. Congress certified the election. He has not been impeached. Obama is eligible to be president because every valid authority to question his eligibility has been satisfied as to his eligibility. We can speculate about the reasons some people still question his eligibility. But it is my contention that there can be no honest good faith reason. Everyone who actually questions his eligibility has some ugly twisted unamerican motiviation. Everyone. The reasons can be different for different people. People like Donald Trump do it because they’re pandering. Others are just racists. Others are xenophobes. Others are rabid partisans. Some are just pig ignorant. There is no room for good faith debate. Anyone who takes the opposing side isn’t arguing in good faith. Anyone who comes to the conclusion that Obama isn’t eligible to be president is a shitty American. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/427 "2011-04-12T16:31:16Z")
The simple fact that there have been no serious motions in Congress should be enough for anyone but conspiracy theorists. It amazes me that someone can watch a dumbshit Congressman on FOX and believe every word the asshole says about how he has questions about where Obama was born, yet be oblivious to the fact that nobody with the power to do so has _done_ anything about it. You don’t think the Republicans want Obama out of office? You don’t think there’d be enough Democrats who’d eat their own in the name of upholding the Constitution? If they could have, they would have. There wouldn’t even be talk about a possible second term. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/428 "2011-04-12T17:07:32Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > Have the circumstances regarding Glenn Beck and that woman he is alleged to have killed in the 70s ever been cleared up? This is a horribly unfair slur against Beck, and it should be retracted immediately. It was 1990, not the 70’s, when Beck may or may not have raped and killed a young woman. I have no evidence, but I fear that it may be true. And the more time passes when he doesn’t clear this up, with a simple statement (but one that must in the long form), the more I fear there may be something to it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/429 "2011-04-12T17:12:48Z")
Still, it is very interesting that no police records of the crime have ever been released. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/430 "2011-04-12T17:14:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Still, it is very interesting that no police records of the crime have ever been released. Beck has spent over 20 million dollars keeping the police records from being released? Why would he do that if he has nothing to hide? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/431 "2011-04-12T17:29:24Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Beck has spent over 20 million dollars keeping the police records from being released? Why would he do that if he has nothing to hide? Not to mention, we are ONLY repeating the questions everyone else is asking. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/432 "2011-04-12T17:38:01Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > Have the circumstances regarding Glenn Beck and that woman he is alleged to have killed in the 70s ever been cleared up? [QUOTE=revtim] This is a horribly unfair slur against Beck, and it should be retracted immediately. It was 1990, not the 70’s, when Beck may or may not have raped and killed a young woman. [/QUOTE] Maybe Glenn Beck is a serial killer. I’m not saying he necessarily is, I’m just asking questions. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/433 "2011-04-12T17:40:18Z")
It would explain why he’s spent so much money to keep the poilce records from being released. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/434 "2011-04-12T17:40:19Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > Maybe Glenn Beck is a serial killer. I’m not saying he necessarily is, I’m just asking questions. He has certainly never gone on record and denied this. I wonder why? Why has he not agreed to release his police records -what is he afraid of? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/435 "2011-04-12T17:41:46Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > Maybe Glenn Beck is a serial killer. I’m not saying he necessarily is, I’m just asking questions. It’s not fair to suggest that killing was Beck’s motivation. I’ve heard that the police think rape was the motivation and that the young girl’s death was incidental to him brutalizing her. I really wish he would comment so we could know for sure if he even did it. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/436 "2011-04-12T18:10:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Wait! Wait! I didn’t say anything about how much you guys fucked up the schools and ruined the economy and are trying to turn us into a nation of dependent nanny-state weiners. Mmm, nanny-state weiners. Pass the mustard … gas! ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/437 "2011-04-12T20:11:30Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s not fair to suggest that killing was Beck’s motivation. I’ve heard that the police think rape was the motivation and that the young girl’s death was incidental to him brutalizing her. I really wish he would comment so we could know for sure if he even did it. Fair enough: Is Glenn Beck a serial killer or a serial rapist\*? Find out (well, you won’t actually find out, but let’s not get technical here) next week on “Just Asking Questions”! \*Insert obligatory “Why can’t he be both like the late Earl Warren?” here. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/438 "2011-04-12T20:24:03Z")
Me, I just want somebody to clear this up, in the name of all the people who are too busy trying to earn a living and shuttle their kids back and forth between soccer games and play rehearsals to keep up with what Glenn Beck may or may not have done in 1990. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/439 "2011-04-12T20:42:57Z")
In honor of our troops in the field, and the children of this country, Mr. Beck needs to settle the issue once and for all. It’s been over twenty years since he did or did not rape and kill the young woman, what is he waiting for? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/440 "2011-04-12T20:56:01Z")
There is no proof, no evidence of any kind, that Glen Beck did any such thing. Which is pretty darned suspicious, if you ask me. What happened to the evidence, who made it disappear? Connect the dot, people! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044.md?page=23)