# Donald Trump is now a birther **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044 "2011-03-17T17:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/481 "2011-04-17T13:19:31Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I have to admit this is a good post (and about 80 I.Q. points above **Harborwolf’s** ). And a scenario equally if not more plausible than mine. Just remember though that the two are not mutually exclusive, and it’s still perfectly reasonable for people like Jackie and Jim Bob to wonder what’s going on with Obama’s birth certificate. Again, choosing to remain ignorant is not reasonable. Never has been. Never will be. If you think that there is any question about Obama’s birth certificate or that it is reasonable to have doubts, you’re a fucking idiot. As has been pointed out, there is no doubt that Obama is an american citizen. The information has been put out there for everyone to see. Black and white. Clear as crystal. You’re wrong to think it’s reasonable. They’re wrong for being ignorant. It really is just that simple. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/482 "2011-04-17T13:24:59Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > … Several very prominent conservative talking heads have already come out as saying Birtherism is batcrap crazy - and these aren’t exactly the voices of the moderates on Fox (Coulter, Beck). … O’Reilly and Hannity too. The reaction to this on Hannity’s own message board is to . . . accuse them all of being part of Obama’s conspiracy now. CMC fnord! This, > [@](#): > > The Dallas Blog has just received an e-mail from a reliable source in Texas, who said he received an interesting e-mail from a former U.S. Naval officer, who obtained a fascinating letter from an I.R.S. examiner who contends that Mr. Obama’s real name is Barry Soetoro, according to alleged Top-Secret tax records. > My reliable Texas source explained that he’s not certain if it’s true, but the letter also provides a link to Obama or Soetoro’s selective service registration information, which looks highly-suspicious. Well, let the fun start and see if these allegations are true. … is what get’s posted as “OMG, new evidence!!!1” ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/483 "2011-04-17T14:17:58Z")
Harping on Gov Abercrombie’s “investigation” is hilarious. I will now recreate this investigation in it’s entirety: > [@](#): > > _ **phone rings** _ > **File Clerk:** Hello? > > **Gov Abercrombie:** Hello is this records? Governor Abercrombie here. Do we have the original birth certificate for Barack Obama on file? > > **FC:** Hold on sir I’ll check… **sounds of footsteps, cardboard boxes being moved and old dusty paper being flipped over** Yes sir we have the original on file. > > **GA:** Thanks. > > _ **phone click, dial tone** _ Do you think there was some massive manhunt involving multiple state agencies and personnel? If there was and If they couldn’t find the certificate why has no one come forth to say so? They must’ve been killed to ensure there silence. Is there any depth the Obama administration will not sink too? ---
**Author:** ![Ograbme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Ograbme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ograbme)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/484 "2011-04-17T15:53:53Z")
[What the christ now he’s saying Obama didn’t write Dreams From My Father.](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/trump-bill-ayers-wrote-obamas-book-video.php?ref=fpb) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/485 "2011-04-17T16:17:45Z")
> [@Ograbme](#): > > [What the christ now he’s saying Obama didn’t write Dreams From My Father.](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/trump-bill-ayers-wrote-obamas-book-video.php?ref=fpb) Pulling all of his information off of World Nut Daily. The same idiot who did the article proclaiming that computer analysis proved someone else wrote Obama’s book also fell for a lousy photoshop job. [Salon.com](http://Salon.com) is having a field day and WND is having a series of temper tantrums. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/486 "2011-04-17T19:52:56Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Again, choosing to remain ignorant is not reasonable. Never has been. Never will be. If you think that there is any question about Obama’s birth certificate or that it is reasonable to have doubts, you’re a fucking idiot. As has been pointed out, there is no doubt that Obama is an american citizen. The information has been put out there for everyone to see. Black and white. Clear as crystal. > > You’re wrong to think it’s reasonable. They’re wrong for being ignorant. It really is just that simple. Nope. You’re wrong. Sorry. The people I’m talking about haven’t _chosen_ to be ignorant. To whatever degree they think about the issue, it’s not that much different than what they hear about conflicting claims regarding bills coming out of congress or what this or that politician said or is claimed to have said. They have busy lives and all this stuff is just background noise. Then, when a question or issue seems plausible, as the ABC article I linked to does, they develop legitimate beliefs or questions about it. Not that difficult to understand really, as long as you’re not emotionally and arrogantly invested in the idea that anyone who doesn’t think what you think and believe what you believe is either stupid or willfully ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/487 "2011-04-17T20:08:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Not that difficult to understand really, as long as you’re not emotionally and arrogantly invested in the idea that anyone who doesn’t think what you think and believe what you believe is either stupid or willfully ignorant. So everybody is entitled to their own facts? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/488 "2011-04-17T20:08:55Z")
SA is just a cover name for Orly Taitz. She gets tossed out of court regularly for suits without any basis. SA is doing the same here. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/489 "2011-04-17T20:28:26Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Nope. You’re wrong. Sorry. The people I’m talking about haven’t _chosen_ to be ignorant. To whatever degree they think about the issue, it’s not that much different than what they hear about conflicting claims regarding bills coming out of congress or what this or that politician said or is claimed to have said. They have busy lives and all this stuff is just background noise. Then, when a question or issue seems plausible, as the ABC article I linked to does, they develop legitimate beliefs or questions about it. Not that difficult to understand really, as long as you’re not emotionally and arrogantly invested in the idea that anyone who doesn’t think what you think and believe what you believe is either stupid or willfully ignorant. This isn’t a matter of what I think or what anyone believes. This isn’t even a political issue. This is a matter of **facts**. Your minuscule little brain seems to have a problem grasping that. Given the truly staggering ability people have to find information these days via the media, computers, smart phones, etc. then yes. If they are ignorant of something as fucking basic as the birthplace of the president, they’re morons. They’re either too lazy to manage a five minute google search or they’re so personally invested in their political party identification (sounds like you) that they are choosing to remain ignorant. It’s not reasonable. It’s not understandable. It’s certainly not admirable. It’s pathetic. And as I’ve said, if colossal twats like you wouldn’t make it some kind of personal mission to spread disinformation or pretend that absolute facts are personal opinions, then people wouldn’t even have to look this shit up. So why don’t you take that patronizing and pulled out of your ass “Jim Bob Six-Pack” routine and shove it back up there. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/490 "2011-04-17T21:06:56Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > This isn’t a matter of what I think or what anyone believes. This isn’t even a political issue. This is a matter of **facts**. Your minuscule little brain seems to have a problem grasping that. Given the truly staggering ability people have to find information these days via the media, computers, smart phones, etc. then yes. If they are ignorant of something as fucking basic as the birthplace of the president, they’re morons. No, they’re just busy with other things and probably inclined to put more faith in the reportage of major news outlets such as ABC then they are about whatever would pop up on an internet search. So they leave the investigating to the big boys and then wonder what’s up when the big boys report things that create questions. It isn’t a matter of stupidity or willful ignorance. It’s a matter of time, overriding family and work considerations, and very likely a lack of motivation to get on the internet and ferret through the conflicting information there. So they go through their lives leaving it up to congress and the courts to determine Obama’s qualifications but still being curious and having questions on a superficial level about things that don’t add up, but not invested in them strongly enough to try to do a better job than ABC of ascertaining the truth. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/491 "2011-04-17T21:46:40Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No, they’re just busy with other things and probably inclined to put more faith in the reportage of major news outlets such as ABC Suuuure. [http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13378871](http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13378871) Most People Confident He Was Born in Hawaii Obama: Republicans create problems for GOP by sowing doubts about whether he is American-born. > [@](#): > > State officials long have certified that Obama was born in Hawaii. [http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html](http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html) > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > then they are about whatever would pop up on an internet search. So they leave the investigating to the big boys and then wonder what’s up when the big boys report things that create questions. It isn’t a matter of stupidity or willful ignorance. It’s a matter of time, overriding family and work considerations, and very likely a lack of motivation to get on the internet and ferret through the conflicting information there. So they go through their lives leaving it up to congress and the courts to determine Obama’s qualifications but still being curious and having questions on a superficial level about things that don’t add up, but not invested in them strongly enough to try to do a better job than ABC of ascertaining the truth. Nope, you show here that you are indeed an ignoramilous even on the assumption that birthers are even capable of understanding what the big boys at ABC did report and continues to report. [http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=12735359](http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=12735359) > [@](#): > > Hawaii’s health director said in 2008 and 2009 that she had seen and verified Obama’s original vital records, and birth notices in two Honolulu newspapers were published within days of Obama’s birth at Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu. > > Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo again confirmed Friday that Obama’s name is found in its alphabetical list of names of people born in Hawaii, maintained in bound copies available for public view. > > That information, called index data, shows a listing for “Obama II, Barack Hussein, Male,” according to the department’s website. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/492 "2011-04-17T22:03:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No, they’re just busy with other things and probably inclined to put more faith in the reportage of major news outlets such as ABC then they are about whatever would pop up on an internet search. So they leave the investigating to the big boys and then wonder what’s up when the big boys report things that create questions. It isn’t a matter of stupidity or willful ignorance. It’s a matter of time, overriding family and work considerations, and very likely a lack of motivation to get on the internet and ferret through the conflicting information there. So they go through their lives leaving it up to congress and the courts to determine Obama’s qualifications but still being curious and having questions on a superficial level about things that don’t add up, but not invested in them strongly enough to try to do a better job than ABC of ascertaining the truth. Repeating the same crap over and over again doesn’t make you any more correct. Especially since you seem to be willingly playing the part of “conflicting information.” And it is still so damned patronizing of you to keep patting your little “Joe Average” on his little head and saying, “It’s okay to just go ahead and stay dumb as fuck. Don’t bother spending five minutes actually learning something. Just let Donald Trump do your thinking for you.”:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/493 "2011-04-17T22:06:38Z")
> [@](#): > > No, they’re just busy with other things and probably inclined to put more faith in the reportage of major news outlets such as ABC then they are about whatever would pop up on an internet search. You think birthers are getting their batshit ideas from ABC? I thought the media was in the thrall of the commie libs? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/494 "2011-04-17T22:11:32Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nope, you show here that you are indeed an ignoramilous even on the assumption that birthers are even capable of understanding what the big boys at ABC did report and continues to report. No, I show here that I don’t care enough about the issue to keep up with developments on it. Look, it isn’t what you guys’ mind would be a perfect world where everytime an issue of concern to you arises, people set aside all their other worldly activities to get to the bottom of it, and in a way that suits you. It just ain’t gonna happen. That does not make them stupid and it does not make them willfully ignorant and it does not make them evil. It makes them normal, average, everyday people. So welcome to the real world. Get over yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/495 "2011-04-17T22:27:58Z")
> [@](#): > > That does not make them stupid and it does not make them willfully ignorant and it does not make them evil. Considering that every single official, under both Democrat and Republican Hawaiian administrations, who has had access to the necessary documentation has vouched they exist and are legitimate and have said so loudly and forcefully when given the opportunity to the media. But if Joe Sixpack prefers to listen to the rantings of a bunch of howler monkeys on Fox(we’re just asking questions)/WND/RacistCrackpotsRUS then yeah he is wilfully ignorant and probably thick as a short plank. I’ll agree with you on the the evil bit though as someone with seemingly that much mush for brains probably hasn’t got the higher order brain functionality to understand the concept of evil. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/496 "2011-04-17T22:38:29Z")
Ahem, not Fox. ABC. Or are you too much of a mush-brained howler monker to have been able to read the cite I provided? There are plenty of reputable organizations reporting on the issue, and some of what they report seems out of the ordinary enough to raise questions. For example, why did governor Abercrombie have to launch an investigation into its whereabouts? And why, even after turning something up, is it not clear whether the item found is the birth form or a document pointing to it? And why, after blustering that he was going to locate and view the long form and report back to settle the issue, nothing has happened since? All of this was contained in the ABC News article I linked to and had nothing to do with either Fox or Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/497 "2011-04-17T22:46:17Z")
> [@](#): > > why did governor Abercrombie have to launch an investigation into its whereabouts? Exactly what “investigation” did he launch? What was the budget and timeframe of the investigation? Which office of the Governor administered it? Who was the investigating officer? What was the outcome of the investigation? Until I see evidence that an official actually ever existed I call bull shit on it. Besides it’s besides the point as the previous Republican Governor has vouched for the existence of the originals. How come she doesn’t get to launch an investigation? Also considering you cite BS like the fact that Obama was brought up in Kenya (despite the fact he didn’t set foot in the country till much much later) as a fact I’m afraid unless you have cites with lock tight research I’ll take whatever you post as evidence with a might big grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/498 "2011-04-17T22:52:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No, I show here that I don’t care enough about the issue to keep up with developments on it. I think that puts you in the “willful ignorance” category. Goody for you. Just go right on ahead and wear that badge with pride. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Look, it isn’t what you guys’ mind would be a perfect world where everytime an issue of concern to you arises, people set aside all their other worldly activities to get to the bottom of it, and in a way that suits you. It just ain’t gonna happen. That does not make them stupid and it does not make them willfully ignorant and it does not make them evil. It makes them normal, average, everyday people. So welcome to the real world. Get over yourselves. Aaaaand once again we have you making a wee tiny internet search into something that requires one to put aside all worldly activities. To think that a person would bother to keep up with the basic fucking facts of society is “in our minds a perfect world.” What a laughable little man you are. It’s remarkably idiotic to imply that we here simply don’t understand the concerns of the working man. Shuttered deep inside our ivory towers like we are, we simply can’t relate to the average joe. Whereas you have your finger on the pulse of what really makes America tick. What an incredible pile of shit that is. You put your head up your ass in the fifties and haven’t pulled it out since for fear the liberals will corrupt your empty little head, and now you want to tell us that you know what goes on in the hearts and minds of the everyman. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/499 "2011-04-17T23:02:11Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Ahem, not Fox. ABC. Or are you too much of a mush-brained howler monker to have been able to read the cite I provided? I read the [cite](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-birth-hawaii-gov-proof-presidents-birth-certificate/story?id=12721552) unfortunately your reading comprehension is the one that is deficient. Here’s the first paragraph: > [@](#): > > Officials in Hawaii say they have located President Obama’s birth certificate indicating that he was born in the state, but have yet to produce the document at the heart of a long-simmering conspiracy theory. They can’t produce the document because as has been explained many many times to do so would be **illegal**. So the governor has vouched that it exists and anyone else who is allowed to see it has vouched that exists because that is all they can do. If the Governor of Hawaii or any state official held up the original document in front of a press conference without the explicit instruction and permission of Obama it would be **illegal** and would be facing a lawsuit in three seconds flat. I’m going to repeat it again to make sure you and any idiot Joe Teabagger who is reading this thread understands: Publicly producing the birth certificate would be **illegal** , and every official who has had permission to see it, from both parties, has vouched for it’s existence and legitimacy. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/500 "2011-04-17T23:05:24Z")
> [@Skip](#): > > Exactly what “investigation” did he launch? What was the budget and timeframe of the investigation? I don’t know. Ask the ABC reporter who used the term. > [@skip](#): > > Also considering you cite BS like the fact that Obama was brought up in Kenya… I didn’t “cite” it. I mentioned it as one of the things that people hear which cause them to have questions. Do you really expect people, when they hear something like that, to drop whatever they’re doing and rush to the internet to ferret out the truth? If so, you’re an idiot. People hear things, they absorb it, and sometimes hear something else that changes their mind about it. Other times not. The point is that no matter how much you think it should be otherwise people just aren’t going to drop everything and rush to get to the bottom of it every time someone says something negative about Obama. > [@Harborwolf](#): > > I think that puts you in the “willful ignorance” category. Goody for you. If I was arguing my own point of view you’d have a point. But I’m not, so you don’t. Why are you so vested in dishonestly trying to portray me as a birther? Why are so you utterly incapable of understanding that most people don’t give enough of a shit about this issue to investigate it on their own, and why are you so eager to believe that anyone who doesn’t think like you do is a moron? That seems like a rather “moronic” way to go about things if you ask me. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044.md?page=26)