# Donald Trump is now a birther **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044 "2011-03-17T17:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/761 "2011-04-24T05:11:59Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Wait, wot ? Thanks for putting words to the question mark in my head when I read that 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/762 "2011-04-24T05:16:29Z")
I was responding primarily to **Kaylasdad99** who accused me of being a “Fox-watcher”. The content of Fox’s news site is considerably different from its televised version and is similar to most of the other online news sites. Thus I don’t tend to think of it in the same vein as Fox’s television programming. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/763 "2011-04-24T05:18:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > One of these days I’m gonna learn to just make my major points and then move on, **as trying to answer one lie after another after another after another after another only muddies up the water**. I should have bailed along about the time posters started accusing me of trying to be all rational and shit. Except you are not doing that. You are cherry picking the same posters over and over again rehashing the same points over and over. Many posters have asked you different questions (myself included) that you ignore. The disingenuousness you’ve shown in this thread is staggering. Frankly at this point I don’t even care as I’ve lost the last shred of respect I’ve had for your opinions, but I did feel the need to point out your above post is complete bullshit (and more dishonesty). ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/764 "2011-04-24T05:27:07Z")
I don’t suppose it’s occurred to you that your post simply got lost in the deluge of bullshit from some of the other posters, posters who continually misstate what I’ve said, thus requiring me to restate it over and over again? Besides, I thought you’d already lost all your respect for me from the last Obama-birth thread I participated in. The disingenuousness you’re showing in that post is stag…amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/765 "2011-04-24T05:50:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I don’t suppose it’s occurred to you that your post simply got lost in the deluge of bullshit from some of the other posters, posters who continually misstate what I’ve said, thus requiring me to restate it over and over again? It’s not like posts here go away. You can scroll back up and look at them whenever you like; twice, three times, whatever it takes to sink in and get you to reply. But while I’ve got your attention, let me try again. Do you excuse Trump for his ignorance of the facts? (He is the subject of this pitting, after all.) Some people may be well-meaning but ill-informed, and too busy to dig out the truth on every issue. Well, there’s nothing much I can do about that. But what about Trump? Shouldn’t we expect him to have done his research before speaking out on this? Frankly, the fact that some people believe Trump doesn’t excuse them in my eyes, but is evidence of the extent of Trump’s transgression. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/766 "2011-04-24T06:02:57Z")
Yeah, Trump is clearly using the situation to his advantage. What I think is that he knows exactly what he’s doing and that he is acheiving exactly what he wants, which is to increase his visibility and therefore the value of his “brand”. I also think he will drop out soon, like he has the several other times he has faux-run, and I don’t think what he’s doing is going to matter much by the time the election rolls around. The birther issue is not going to lead anywhere, and by the time the various serious candidates get underway, they will all be admitting that there’s nothing to it and it’ll become a dead issue long before the election. The only people who will believe it at that time are people of the type who believe it now, and they aren’t going to vote for Obama anyway. And I’m not going to go digging through 15 or however many pages it is now to find out what **PlainJain** wanted to ask me. Plus she made it clear that since she’s lost respect for me now and thinks me disingenuous in the bargain, she no longer cares about my answer. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/767 "2011-04-24T06:11:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I was responding primarily to **Kaylasdad99** who accused me of being a “Fox-watcher”. The content of Fox’s news site is considerably different from its televised version and is similar to most of the other online news sites. Thus I don’t tend to think of it in the same vein as Fox’s television programming. You mean the Fox news site that runs stories like “Obama praises Indian who killed American general” (a.k.a. Sitting Fucking Bull) and “College kid kills himself during Obama speech” ? Yeah, real different editorial line from their TV outlet alright 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/768 "2011-04-24T06:31:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yeah, Trump is clearly using the situation to his advantage. What I think is that he knows exactly what he’s doing and that he is acheiving exactly what he wants, which is to increase his visibility and therefore the value of his “brand”. That’s a long way from a condemnation. Are you willing to say that Trump is wrong for spreading and perpetuating this untruth? > [@](#): > > I also think he will drop out soon, like he has the several other times he has faux-run, and I don’t think what he’s doing is going to matter much by the time the election rolls around. The birther issue is not going to lead anywhere, and by the time the various serious candidates get underway, they will all be admitting that there’s nothing to it and it’ll become a dead issue long before the election. The only people who will believe it at that time are people of the type who believe it now, and they aren’t going to vote for Obama anyway. Are you familiar with the concept of FUD, a marketing tactic of spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt to undermine competitors. (“Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM equipment.”) I don’t share your rosy view of the coming campaign. This should have been put to bed two years ago, yet here we are. And I don’t see any reason for the serious Republican candidates to give it up now. If doubts about Obama’s authority and honesty can get them more votes than it loses, what’s to stop them? Maybe we’ll come back to this thread in a year-and-a-half and see how many Republicans have gone on the record saying that Obama is a natural born citizen. Better still, let’s see if any of them condemn their fellow candidates for spreading doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/769 "2011-04-24T06:32:32Z")
Beats me. I don’t remember seeing them there. Besides, as I explained to a poster upthread, none of us click on every link or headline we see. And I know the site is biased and if I were to see something like the Sitting Bull thing, I would’ve moved on as soon as I saw what it was about. As for the kid killing himself during Obama’s speech, I would have recognized that as bullshit right away and not even clicked on it. The Fox News site is probably my least favorite. It wonky and doesn’t work all that well, has a certain number of shit stories (like you suggest), it’s full of fluff and stories that in my opinion don’t rate mention even on the local stations of the towns where they took place (“dog bites man’s nose” and shit like that). Still, they have enough good stuff to make stopping by worthwhile. Frankly, I find more readable non-political news there than I do on CNN. Still, the Fox site is only one of several news sites I get info from, not to mention other sites various stories lead to, such as the NYT, Washington Post and LA Times, not to mention other interesting places such as The Root, which you would probably be surprised to learn I have bookmarked. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/770 "2011-04-24T06:40:29Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > That’s a long way from a condemnation. Are you willing to say that Trump is wrong for spreading and perpetuating this untruth? > > Are you familiar with the concept of FUD, a marketing tactic of spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt to undermine competitors. (“Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM equipment.”) > > I don’t share your rosy view of the coming campaign. This should have been put to bed two years ago, yet here we are. And I don’t see any reason for the serious Republican candidates to give it up now. If doubts about Obama’s authority and honesty can get them more votes than it loses, what’s to stop them? > > Maybe we’ll come back to this thread in a year-and-a-half and see how many Republicans have gone on the record saying that Obama is a natural born citizen. Better still, let’s see if any of them condemn their fellow candidates for spreading doubt. Why are you complaining to me about all this? All I’ve said is that intelligent but basically disinterested people can hear things that create questions in their mind about Obama’s birth. This is just a common sense observation and undeniably true. Wouldn’t you think that the fact that they aren’t interested in the subject enough to delve into it would mean it isn’t going to play much of a role in their voting behavior? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/771 "2011-04-24T07:12:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Why are you complaining to me about all this? All I’ve said is that intelligent but basically disinterested people can hear things that create questions in their mind about Obama’s birth. This is just a common sense observation and undeniably true. Wouldn’t you think that the fact that they aren’t interested in the subject enough to delve into it would mean it isn’t going to play much of a role in their voting behavior? I’m not complaining to you, except to say that you’re changing the subject by defending those who listen to Trump and ignoring Trump, himself. Now you’re also trying to dismiss the importance of this misinformation. One simple question, will you go on the record condemning Trump for spreading false information? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/772 "2011-04-24T08:52:56Z")
Sure. I will condemn the spreading of false information that Trump is deliberately engaging in. See how easy that was? Easy-peasy! And do you know why? Because you posed a common sense question based on a common sense concern. Alternatively, if you had asked if anyone and everyone who heard Trump’s false information and gave it at least some credence without automatically logging in to Google to get the real story were stupid - which is a position that a fair number of posters to this thread are taking - then I would disagree. Perfectly intelligent people may hear this stuff and, having not previously delved into it, believe it has some credence. It isn’t enough to simply use the bullying tactic of calling people stupid just because they think or believe something that you (generic “you”) dislike. If you want to call them stupid and have it mean anything, then you need to demonstrate in some tangible way that they are indeed stupid. Merely claiming that they should have taken some atypical action and proclaiming them stupid if they haven’t doesn’t cut it. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/773 "2011-04-24T13:41:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Perfectly intelligent people may hear this stuff and, having not previously delved into it, believe it has some credence. No intelligent person would accept a highly publicized, outlandish and long resolved claim from discredited sources without questioning. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/774 "2011-04-24T16:21:17Z")
> [@MacCat](#): > > No intelligent person would accept a highly publicized, outlandish and long resolved claim from discredited sources without questioning. And taking his ramblings at face value does mean that his defense remains an idiotic one. Once again, time is ignored to make a stupid defense, for after 3 years of this it is really stupid to assume that virtually all the ones with “doubts” have not dealt with this issue before, it is mostly extreme conservatives that continue to swallow the [del]FIX[/del] FOX news propaganda to continue to to get doses of doubt or bits that confirm what they previously believed: [http://mediamatters.org/research/201104200008](http://mediamatters.org/research/201104200008) > [@](#): > > Fox Uncritically Hosts Birthers, Promotes Birther Conspiracy Theories > > Cashill On Kilmeade’s Fox Radio Show: “Where’s The Birth Certificate?” During the March 18 broadcast of his Fox News Radio program, host Brian Kilmeade gave more than 16 minutes of airtime to Obama conspiracy theorist Jack Cashill. During the interview, Cashill said that a reporter should ask Obama, “Where’s the birth certificate?” [Fox News Radio, Kilmeade and Friends, 3/18/11] > > Trump Told Unquestioning Fox & Friends Hosts, “I’m Starting To Wonder … Whether Or Not [Obama] Was Born In This Country.” On March 28, Fox & Friends hosted Trump, who stated, “I’m starting to wonder myself whether or not he was born in this country.” [Fox News, Fox & Friends, 3/28/11] > > Ratcheting Up Birtherism, Fox Hosted Trump To Call Birthers “Great Americans.” During the March 28 edition of Fox News’ On the Record, Greta Van Susteren hosted Trump, who advanced his birther conspiracy theories. Van Susteren pointed out that Obama has a passport and one would need to submit a copy of their birth certificate in order to obtain a passport. Trump did not address this point, instead referring to birthers as “great Americans.” [Fox News, On The Record, 3/28/11] > > Fox Nation Promoted Corsi’s Upcoming Birther Book. On March 28, Fox Nation posted a video promoting a new book by discredited author and birther Jerome Corsi about Obama’s birth certificate. [Fox Nation, 3/28/11] > > Fox Nation Provided Platform For Trump Birtherism. A March 29 Fox Nation post promoted Trump releasing his “official” birth certificate. [Fox Nation, 3/29/11] > > Fox Nation Again Celebrated Trump’s Birther Claims By Saying He “Thump[ed] MSNBC Hosts On Obama’s Birth Certificate.” An April 1 Fox Nation headline read, “Trump Thumps MSNBC Hosts on Obama’s Birth Certificate.” Fox Nation linked to a video of Trump’s appearance on MSNBC, in which Trump said, “I feel that there is certainly a chance [Obama] was not born in this country.” [Fox Nation, 4/1/11] > > After Hosting Trump Birther Theories, Fox & Friends Increases Promotion Of Trump’s Weekly Fox & Friends Appearances. Following Trump’s then-newly announced birther theories, Fox News began to increase their promotion of Trump’s regular weekly segment on Fox & Friends. [Media Matters, 4/3/11] > > Fox Nation Continues To Promote Trump Birtherism: “Investigators … Cannot Believe What They’re Finding.” An April 7 Fox Nation headline stated, "Trump: I have Investigators in Hawaii… ‘They Cannot Believe What They’re Finding.’ " [Fox Nation, 4/7/11] > > Van Susteren Gave Trump Free Reign To Repeat Birther Theories. During the April 11 of her Fox News program, Van Susteren gave Trump the opportunity and airtime to push his birther conspiracies and discuss his efforts in Hawaii to look into Obama’s citizenship. [Fox News, On the Record, 4/11/11] And there are many examples from the past, whoever are the people Starving is claiming to defend they are a minority of the vanilla birther minority that in turn is a minority of the conservatives; about the only ones that are not \*\*continuing \*_to follow birther ideas that had assimilated already thanks to right wing propaganda or that they had “not previously delved into it”, are just kids that in the meantime just became politically aware in the previous 3 years, or as I said, born yesterday_ or that they lived in a cave all this years. Not a fringe group that I would be proud to defend as Starving also pointed out at sources like Drudge and FOX news that they (whoever is a noob on this issue) would follow, that only shows that in reality Starving is defending willful ignorance as in reality most of the people that he is defending are plain vanilla birters that already “figured it out”. \*in the insulting figurative meaning and in the literal form. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/775 "2011-04-24T16:40:14Z")
But that’s not the point! The point is that calling them “stupid” reveals the hateful bigotry and intolerance of the left! THAT’S the point! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/776 "2011-04-24T17:09:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Sure. I will condemn the spreading of false information that Trump is deliberately engaging in. You have a bright future writing apologies for celebrities caught in scandals. > [@](#): > > See how easy that was? Easy-peasy! And do you know why? Because you posed a common sense question based on a common sense concern. Sorry. I’ll be sure to keep my questions to you as simple as possible from now on. > [@](#): > > Alternatively, if you had asked if anyone and everyone who heard Trump’s false information and gave it at least some credence without automatically logging in to Google to get the real story were stupid - which is a position that a fair number of posters to this thread are taking - then I would disagree. Perfectly intelligent people may hear this stuff and, having not previously delved into it, believe it has some credence. It isn’t enough to simply use the bullying tactic of calling people stupid just because they think or believe something that you (generic “you”) dislike. If you want to call them stupid and have it mean anything, then you need to demonstrate in some tangible way that they are indeed stupid. Merely claiming that they should have taken some atypical action and proclaiming them stupid if they haven’t doesn’t cut it. And back on the attack, for something I’ve never said. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/777 "2011-04-24T19:25:11Z")
Listen folks, I’m not saying that Jews kill babies for their blood. I’m just saying that normal people out there might hear that claim by accidentally going to a neo-Nazi website and it might raise questions in their minds. Should they then continue to believe that Mrs Moskowitz down the road is responsible for the deaths of a few toddlers because they’re too busy preparing dinner or taking out the trash can we really blame them? And can we really call them ignorant or racist because they might have heard stories of how Jews have tails and devil horns but they can’t investigate these claims because Hot In Cleveland is on? Not that I believe all that! Of course not! I’m just saying that people are busy and sometimes a question is raised that can’t be answered sufficiently because the kettle just boiled and I really don’t like warm tea. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/778 "2011-04-24T21:26:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Sure. I will condemn the spreading of false information that Trump is deliberately engaging in. > > See how easy that was? Easy-peasy! And do you know why? Because you posed a common sense question based on a common sense concern. So, based on **SA** ’s interaction with **Robot Arm** , the following is an ‘easy-peasy’ system for getting a response from him: 1. Ask common-sense question, get ignored 2. Point out question was ignored, get obfuscatory non-answer 3. Point out question hasn’t been answered, get “Why are you complaining to me about all this?” whine 4. Point out yet again “because you still haven’t actually answered the question” 5. Get an actual answer I wonder what technique **SA** would adopt if he was actually trying to be difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/779 "2011-04-24T23:33:59Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > So, based on **SA** ’s interaction with **Robot Arm** , the following is an ‘easy-peasy’ system for getting a response from him: > > 1. Ask common-sense question, get ignored > 2. Point out question was ignored, get obfuscatory non-answer > 3. Point out question hasn’t been answered, get “Why are you complaining to me about all this?” whine > 4. Point out yet again “because you still haven’t actually answered the question” > 5. Get an actual answer > > I wonder what technique **SA** would adopt if he was actually trying to be difficult. Unfortunately, 5 still hasn’t really happened, except in a vacuous, “mistakes were made” kind of way. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044/780 "2011-04-25T02:15:20Z")
> [@Skip](#): > > Listen folks, I’m not saying that Jews kill babies for their blood. I’m just saying that normal people out there might hear that claim by accidentally going to a neo-Nazi website and it might raise questions in their minds. > > Should they then continue to believe that Mrs Moskowitz down the road is responsible for the deaths of a few toddlers because they’re too busy preparing dinner or taking out the trash can we really blame them? And can we really call them ignorant or racist because they might have heard stories of how Jews have tails and devil horns but they can’t investigate these claims because Hot In Cleveland is on? > > Not that I believe all that! Of course not! I’m just saying that people are busy and sometimes a question is raised that can’t be answered sufficiently because the kettle just boiled and I really don’t like warm tea. Did we actually make it sixteen pages before we got to the nazis? If we did, that’s gotta be a record. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-is-now-a-birther/575044.md?page=40)