# Donald Trump, tax avoider **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 27, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696 "2020-09-27T21:49:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/323 "2020-09-29T22:22:51Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Big announcement coming soon - people are going to be stunned by what we’ve found. This. It will be the birther crap Redux. “I’ve sent a special team to Ukrainia, and you won’t believe what they’ve found. Believe me, it’s big, and soon Sleepy Joe will be in jail. We’ll know more in two weeks, believe me bigly.” ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/324 "2020-09-29T22:39:07Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Trump: The only thing that’s fishy is your son’s business in Ukraine and your influence as president in Ukraine. You guys used the Oval Office to make a lot of money and my Attorney General is investigating that right now! In fact, my Attorney General is going to make an announcement soon about what he’s found. It’s unbelievable. I think there will be a criminal indictment coming. You won’t have to worry about winning or running for office because you’re going to be going to jail for what you did to cover up your son’s shady deals in Ukraine and also for spying on my campaign!!!" There is absolutely no way Trump could say even half of that without devolving into word salad. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/325 "2020-09-29T22:46:48Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > I am more concerned about him personally guaranteeing $400million that is coming due. Who loaned him the money and is he willing to sell out the country to avoid paying? This is what Biden should hit, hard. However, I disagree with those who say Biden should avoid the ‘paid only $750 or nothing for years’ issue. Biden should point out that federal income taxes are what support our troops. He should ask Trump “Why don’t you support our troops?” It’s a fair question and it needs to be asked. ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/326 "2020-09-29T22:48:06Z")
I don’t know why people are worried about President Trumps debt. He will just get new loans to pay the debt. Regular business for rich people. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/327 "2020-09-29T22:50:58Z")
I think the 2016 debate after the Access Hollywood tape is a pretty good predictor of what we’ll see tonight. We’ll see someone who’s back is against the wall, and he will come out swinging. I wonder if Trump will physically stalk Biden the way he did Clinton. Trump isn’t interested in debate - he never has been. He’s interested in turning this into a spectacle and making Biden look nervous and uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/328 "2020-09-29T22:57:02Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > He’s interested in turning this into a spectacle and making Biden look nervous and uncomfortable. Which Biden can turn around by asking why Trump forgets who is the president. > If Bob Woodward thought what I said was bad, then he should have immediately right after I said it gone out to the authorities so they can prepare and let him know. “‘The authorities’ include yourself, Mr. President.” ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/329 "2020-09-29T23:04:34Z")
What is the evidence that Trump has broken laws, as presented by the NY Times? I read the article linked to below. (I said earlier I didn’t have access. Indeed, I do, I thought I’d let my subscription lapse). Anyway, here is a quote: > [@](#): > > So how did he escape nearly all taxes on that fortune? Even the effective tax rate paid by the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans could have caused him to pay more than $100 million. > > The answer rests in a third category of Mr. Trump’s endeavors: businesses that he owns and runs himself. The collective and persistent losses he reported from them largely absolved him from paying federal income taxes on the $600 million from “The Apprentice,” branding deals and investments. > > That equation is a key element of the alchemy of Mr. Trump’s finances: using the proceeds of his celebrity to purchase and prop up risky businesses, then wielding their losses to avoid taxes. The article is full of details about shady behavior by Trump, if that is the right word. But it does not say laws were broken. _So I ask you again, what is the evidence that he has?_ The full article: [Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance - The New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html) As for this: " They are covering the evidence of law breaking extensively and not, contrary to reports in this thread, just saying “OH MY GOD, TRUMP ONLY PAID $750 IN TAXES!!!” That’s made up bullshit." I never said that the “$750” story was _all_ that was being covered. Come on, you know that. Why do you like to put words in my mouth? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/330 "2020-09-29T23:12:12Z")
> [@MrMrmrmr](#): > > I don’t know why people are worried about President Trumps debt. He will just get new loans to pay the debt. Regular business for rich people. Because he had, several years ago, gotten to the point where most of the major U.S. banks were no longer willing to keep lending him money. Deutsche Bank was a notable exception, and they’ve since been under investigation for shady dealings. (Note: the article below is from 2017.) > [@](#): > > To borrow money, Trump has had to turn to smaller and less conventional sources of capital, such as Ladder Capital Finance, a New York real estate investment trust that holds mortgages on several Trump properties. Ladder doesn’t keep the mortgages it issues and instead packages them into securities and resells them to other financial institutions. It therefore has somewhat more freedom to take risks with its customers than more heavily regulated banks. > > More troubling is Trump’s relationship with his other major lender, Deutsche Bank Trust Company Americas, a subsidiary of the giant German bank, says Eisen of the Brookings Institution. > > Deutsche Bank Trust Company Americas is in talks with the federal government over various financial irregularities and faces big potential fines over its handling of mortgage-backed securities. Like other big banks, it will be affected by Trump’s vow to overhaul bank regulations. > > "Here you have one of the world’s largest financial institutions, Mr. Trump’s principal lender, whom he owes many, many millions of dollars to, that creates a conflict that cuts across Mr. Trump’s job as president, " Eisen says. > **[Trump May Have A Lot Of Money, But Documents Show He Owes A Lot, Too](https://www.npr.org/2017/06/20/533552769/trump-may-have-a-lot-of-money-but-documents-show-he-owes-a-lot-too)** > > Over the years, the president has had an up-and-down relationship with big commercial lenders. But while in the Oval Office, he could find himself in a conflict of interest with any amount of debt. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/331 "2020-09-29T23:14:44Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > What is the evidence that Trump has broken laws, as presented by the NY Times? This a beautiful example of the **Fiddle\_Peghead** brand… denying that you have seen evidence when you have the evidence right in front of you. “Details about shady behavior by Trump,” is, in fact, evidence that laws were broken. It falls short of proof, of course, but it is definitely evidence. This is the exact same mistake you make in virtually every thread where you ask for evidence. ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/332 "2020-09-29T23:14:44Z")
I am aware of that, and the Russians saving his ass by renting/ buying his NewYork real estate. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/333 "2020-09-29T23:14:46Z")
Yes, i agree. but remember, every auditor and appeals officer can rule differently. It’s a gray area. In her case claiming _"business gifts, cable television, car expenses, cell phone, contact lenses, cosmetics, gym memberships, haircuts, Internet access, makeup, manicures, meals, self-defense classes, satellite radio, subscriptions to newspapers and magazines (Cosmopolitan, Glamour, Newsweek, and Nickelodeon), and teeth whitening.]”_" was likely the 500 lb safe that broke the camel’s back. Just the hair? Would the IRS go to court over that?- very doubtful. I worked with District Council, they never wanted to go to Court without a slam dunk ironclad case. trumps hair is very likely not deductible, but claiming it isnt fraud. Good faith grey area. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/334 "2020-09-29T23:19:25Z")
Here’s a specific example. > The “consultants” are not identified in the tax records. But evidence of this arrangement was gleaned by comparing the confidential tax records to the financial disclosures Ivanka Trump filed when she joined the White House staff in 2017. Ms. Trump reported receiving payments from a consulting company she co-owned, totaling $747,622, that exactly matched consulting fees claimed as tax deductions by the Trump Organization for hotel projects in Vancouver and Hawaii. This is evidence that Trump broke the law. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/335 "2020-09-29T23:21:27Z")
Can you say “quid pro quo”? > **[Qatar Is Paying the Trump Organization for What Appears to Be a Fake Office....](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/trump-organization-money-qatar-empty-office.html)** > > And the country started doing this at about the same time the president completely reversed his position on whether Qatar is bad. HUH! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/336 "2020-09-29T23:22:52Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > This is evidence that Trump broke the law… I think that when some here say “What is the evidence that Trump has broken laws” What they are actually asking for is not “evidence” but rather “Proof beyond any conceivable doubt, that would convince me personally, given that I think Trump is the embodiment of perfection.” ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/337 "2020-09-29T23:26:25Z")
Newspapers and courtrooms have their own lanes, rules, and jobs to do. Are you saying they are exceeding their mandate by not providing a slate of documentary evidence to support the story? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/338 "2020-09-29T23:30:24Z")
Are you or are you not going to show what laws may have been broken by Trump, and what the evidence is. If someone behaves in a morally reprehensible way that can be characterized as “shady”, that does not mean they broke laws while doing it. You want to talk about brands, whatever the hell that is? You never answer my questions, you just make embarrassing non-replies. That is YOUR brand. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/339 "2020-09-29T23:31:48Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Are you or are you not going to show what laws may have been broken by Trump, and what the evidence is. Try to keep up. See #334. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/340 "2020-09-29T23:32:28Z")
I think we’re seeing a Trump - style debate here: Ignore the answer to your question and trash talk in order to derail the conversation. Classic. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/341 "2020-09-29T23:33:10Z")
I am here to state opinions and also to learn, believe it or not. So, show me a law that may have broken in Trump’s dealings with Ivanka. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/342 "2020-09-29T23:33:40Z")
I know. I can’t believe Lance won’t just answer! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696.md?page=18)