# Donald Trump, tax avoider **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 27, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696 "2020-09-27T21:49:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/343 "2020-09-29T23:33:41Z")
Wow, that sure looks bad. Can we go back to the days when the worst thing the president did was wack at a rabbit swimming towards his canoe? Kids, google President Carter rabbit. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/344 "2020-09-29T23:35:18Z")
> [@Skypist](#): > > > [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > > > What I don’t understand is how anyone could pay $2,000 to have their hair look like _that_ ? > > Consider what he’s working with! They probably did the best anyone could. > > Maybe it could be a deduction while he’s on a TV show, but just for being a well known person it shouldn’t be. Maybe it is, but it shouldn’t be. I can’t see his hair expenses passing the IRS test. Everyone is talking like this is some big gray area of the tax code, an unusual expense. But I think ultimately the same rules that apply for deductions for clothing would apply. 1. You are required to wear the clothes (or hairstyle) as a condition of the job. 2. The clothes (or hairstyle) isn’t suitable for everyday wear. And I think it’s pretty clear that Trump’s hair doesn’t meet these conditions. There is no job, except maybe circus clown, that requires hair like that. I guess one could make the argument that Trump’s hair isn’t suitable for everyday wear. Except he wears it every day. The everyday wear standard doesn’t take your personal style into account. If your company makes you wear dark suits, it’s not deductible even if YOU never wear those suits outside of work. Because lots of people do. I don’t know if the reverse is true, though. I have a friend of a friend that is an Elvis impersonator. And he lives it 24/7. I saw him come to a summer picnic as a guest wearing a white spangled suit. Now, typically an Elvis costume would meet the standard (probably) if it was just worn as a costume but it don’t know if that changes for him because he wears it every day. Trump still doesn’t pass the first part, though. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/345 "2020-09-29T23:36:04Z")
**Lance\_Turbo** , it has been nice discussing things with you. But it’s gotten tiring, especially having to waste 3 seconds of my life reading where you think I use “fun house mirrors” and the like. You have no intention of giving me any respect, and you live by the snide comment. I am done talking with you. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/346 "2020-09-29T23:37:42Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I know. I can’t believe Lance won’t just answer! The Monty Python Black Knight isn’t a debate style you should seek to emulate. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/347 "2020-09-29T23:41:16Z")
I replied to you, carefully, some 5 hours ago: _What exactly is “cheating” on your tax return? Do you mean a Negligence penalty? A Substantial Understatement penalty? Civil Fraud? Criminal fraud?_ _You cant really tell from a tax return if fraud has been committed. You can easily see that the numbers look suspicious._ _Trump- by his own admission- has been under audit for years now. The IRS doesnt do that if your returns are peachy keen (in fact, if you are audited and you dont owe, you are generally given a audit pass for two years- clearly that didnt happen here). Clearly, there are serious and deep issues with the returns- and to me that means " cheating" . Whether or not those rise to criminal or civil fraud we dont know yet. If only civil fraud, we may never know. That is confidential._ _If criminal fraud- that sort of thing takes a lot of time and we likely wont see the indictment until after trump leaves office. Especially since if there is one, no doubt the Director of the IRS will be fired by trump if there a indictment while trump is still in office. That puts a pall on any sort of quick action._ _So, by my definition, yes, trump was cheating, that much he has even admitted._ So, trump certainly and admittedly violated sections of the IRC, which is indeed a set of Laws. Whether that rises to actual criminal behaviour- we wont know until the indictments come out. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/349 "2020-09-29T23:44:17Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I know. I can’t believe Lance won’t just answer!. Try to keep up. See #334. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/350 "2020-09-29T23:44:39Z")
But did he wear his hair like that when he wasnt : a TV celebrity or Running for or in public office. Looking at older pictures it seems not. Again, I wouldnt allow it, but some would. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/351 "2020-09-29T23:46:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Clearly, there are serious and deep issues with the returns- and to me that means " _cheating"_ . Whether or not those rise to criminal or civil fraud we dont know yet. If only civil fraud, we may never know. That is confidential. First, as to you replying 5 hours ago, yes you did, and I missed it and I do apologize, but I wholeheartedly thank you for a thoughtful reply. As to the quote from you above, I used the word “cheating” but quickly clarified that I mean law-breaking. Now, what you say is true, we don’t know where this will go, whether anything will be criminal in nature. That is exactly why I am asking for any evidence now available, but not just assuming that it must exist. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/352 "2020-09-29T23:46:36Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Thank you for showing your racism. **Moderating** This an official warning for personal insults. If you want to call people racist, there’s the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/353 "2020-09-29T23:49:55Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Yes, more than MBA’s that put gypsy curses on people. Try the pumpkin pie. **Moderating** This seems to be headed into some pretty personal territory. Let’s avoid that. No warning issued. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/354 "2020-09-29T23:52:08Z")
All the way down, am I right? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/355 "2020-09-29T23:53:49Z")
Technically, if you violate sections of the IRC, you _are_ “breaking the law.” That does not necessarily (and rarely does) mean you have committed criminal tax fraud. At this point in time, saying “he cheated” = is almost certainly correct. Saying “tax evader” is also very likely correct. Just based on how long the audits have been going on, not to mention those returns. Saying “he committed criminal tax fraud”- there is no evidence _at this time_ to support that. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/356 "2020-09-29T23:54:40Z")
Do enlighten me to who has done trash talking in this thread. I am truly interested. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/357 "2020-09-30T00:00:02Z")
What section of the IRC was violated? As for how long the audits have been going on, I would be wary of making assumptions about what will be found based on the length of time. Trump has many business interests, and surely the amount of time needed to look into all of them will be lengthy. _ **Agreed on the lack of evidence of criminal tax fraud at this point, btw.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/358 "2020-09-30T00:05:40Z")
I’ve been hearing a story pushed on CNN and MSNBC, and also by Nancy Pelosi, that if Trump has loads of debt, he is a very likely target of Putin and the like to compromise him, and get him to do illegal things to support their foreign regimes. This seems theoretically possible, so that may be one reason to worry about it. I myself am not overly worried about it, because I believe even Trump isn’t dumb enough, as the most observed person in the world, to get involved in something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/359 "2020-09-30T00:14:10Z")
You don’t really follow the news do you? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/360 "2020-09-30T00:22:40Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Do they have such evidence of cheating, by which I mean law-breaking? Based on what is in the Times, he clearly did not follow the gift tax guidance in IRS publications His children had to pay income tax on the consulting fees that were, legally, gifts. Whether evading the gift tax return will save the family in the long run depends on how rich DJT is when he dies. So it’s not the most outrageous allegation in the Times story. But as someone who has had to check the gift tax rules myself, it seems to me a clear violation. More outrageous to me is the five time increase in claimed general and administrative expenses for his Bedminster NJ club from 2016 to 2017. 2017 is when he started using the club as a presidential retreat, and when he started firing long time undocumented employees. Even if legal, profiting from higher expenses incurred in this way is outrageous. If it turns out that the five times increase is legal, it’s an example of what is legal being a worse scandal that what’ legal. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/361 "2020-09-30T00:27:30Z")
Let’s not forget that income tax is not the only shady doings to hit the news recently. There’s also property tax. > **[Trump Tower Hicksville: Why is the Trump campaign sending rent checks to a...](https://www.salon.com/2020/09/25/trump-tower-hicksville-why-is-the-trump-campaign-sending-rent-checks-to-a-long-island-po-box/)** > > Trump campaign's rent payments to Hicksville, New York, might be of interest to a tax fraud investigation ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/362 "2020-09-30T00:30:51Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Even if legal, profiting from higher expenses incurred in this way is outrageous. If it turns out that the five times increase is legal, it’s an example of what is legal being a worse scandal that what’ legal. I agree that it is outrageous. But in your own scenario, it’s not illegal. I see Trump as a serial tax _avoider_, just like the thread title says. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/363 "2020-09-30T00:33:11Z")
Trump could, if he wished, release his tax info at any time. He is under no restrictions. After all, it’s his own information. He could be honest with all kinds of information, if he were an honest man. The IRS ain’t got jack fucking shit to do with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696.md?page=19)