# Donald Trump, tax avoider **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 27, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696 "2020-09-27T21:49:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/364 "2020-09-30T00:33:13Z")
Least of all Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/365 "2020-09-30T00:33:57Z")
Yes, I do. Is there something specific that you wanted to say? šŸ˜ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/366 "2020-09-30T00:34:35Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > His children had to pay income tax on the consulting fees that were, legally, gifts. Whether evading the gift tax return will save the family in the long run depends on how rich DJT is when he dies. Can that be pardoned away? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/367 "2020-09-30T00:34:43Z")
I think that he may have run afoul of the laws regarding tax withholding. If Ivanka is a full time employee of the Trump Organization he is required to report everything he pays her -salary, commission, bonuses, ā€¦everything. If he tries to evade that obligation by paying her in another way for work she does for the Trump Organization, thatā€™s tax evasion. And there seems to be some clear evidence pointing that way. Iā€™m not going to be able to give you proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Thatā€™s not how it works, and Iā€™m tired of Trump enablers insisting that proof beyond doubt should be required as a basis for an investigation. There arenā€™t a ton of investigations into Trump because people are out to get him. Trump is investigated more than other presidents for the same reason that the Joker is investigated more than Commissioner Gordon. White collar crime isnā€™t always as clear cut or easy to understand as street crime. Much of it seems victimless at first glance. But we all pay the price. Tax evasion hurts all of us, we all make up the shortfall. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/368 "2020-09-30T00:39:45Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I think that he may have run afoul of the laws regarding tax withholding. If Ivanka is a full time employee of the Trump Organization he is required to report everything he pays her -salary, commission, bonuses, ā€¦everything. If he tries to evade that obligation by paying her in another way for work she does for the Trump Organization, thatā€™s tax evasion. Thanks for your specific answer. Being in no way an expert on tax evasion, you seem to have something here. > [@](#): > > And there seems to be some clear evidence pointing that way. Iā€™m not going to be able to give you proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Thatā€™s not how it works, and Iā€™m tired of Trump enablers insisting that proof beyond doubt should be required as a basis for an investigation. I do hope youā€™ve read enough of my posts to know that I am not a Trump enabler. And I donā€™t even know if you were referring to me. But I assure you, I am not one. And no doubt having to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt in order to start an investigation would pretty much guarantee the end of all investigations. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/369 "2020-09-30T00:51:56Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Thanks for your specific answer. Being in no way an expert on tax evasion, you seem to have something here. She does have something here. Evidence. Evidence that Trump broke the law. Evidence that was presented in the NYT article and quoted to you, by me, in post #334. Try to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/370 "2020-09-30T01:19:29Z")
This is going pretty much the way I thought: Trump is trying to rattle Biden by not letting him speak. Yes, intellectually, itā€™s a shit show, but to the average beer swilling, know-nothing guy, Biden looks old, weak, and uncomfortable, which was what Trump wanted to make him look like. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/371 "2020-09-30T01:20:25Z")
Live watch-along thread here: > [@Will you watch the debates?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-watch-the-debates/921813/105): > > Trump: ā€œWe took away the individual manā€“ā€ Joe, let the man talk. Heā€™s knitting himself a noose. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/372 "2020-09-30T03:33:56Z")
Think of it this way. Trump owes ~$400 million in personal debt plus $100M in probably tax liability vs overinflated property valuations that have been depreciated to the max. Trump ā€œassetsā€ are prolly jack squat after calculating his liabilities. His ā€œbusiness empireā€ of Trump branding, money losing golf courses and Trump Tower (prolly leveraged to the hilt) will go tits up in the next 4 years. _North Korea_ could save his assā€¦think about it? Even impoverished North Korea led by a caricature clown could save Trump from bankruptcy. Maybe thatā€™s why they ā€œfell in loveā€? Putinā€™s Puppy is unequivically a national security risk. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/373 "2020-09-30T03:50:46Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Putinā€™s Puppy is unequivically a national security risk. Do you have evidence of that? Oh wait, of course you do. The 10,000 word NYT piece contains tons of evidence of that. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/374 "2020-09-30T04:56:09Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Yes, I do. Is there something specific that you wanted to say? šŸ˜ You said, > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > because I believe even Trump isnā€™t dumb enough, as the most observed person in the world, to get involved in something like that. That doesnā€™t seem like the sort of position that someone who follows the news would say. Trump, as the most observed person in the world: Has pressured Ukraine to lie about Biden by withholding their aid. Has just not divested himself from his businesses. Has attempted to destroy the USPS because of increased mail-in voting during Covid. Has lied about Covid and repeated underplayed the seriousness of it, causing tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths. Has affirmatively decided to take away refugee children from their parents and cage them. Has murdered a foreign dignitary on the ground of a third allied country. Has ignored Russian bounties on American service people. Has abandoned our allies, the Kurds. He was dumb enough to do all those things while being observed. Of course heā€™s stupid enough to cut Putin some slack for money. I could go on, but Iā€™m bored of typing since I know that this wonā€™t persuade you. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/375 "2020-09-30T06:32:59Z")
**Lobohan** , you left out: - Has had basically a public dalliance (not sexual) with the dictator of North Korea while taking money from projects intended to improve the quality of life of our troops. - Has had basically a public dalliance (not sexual) with and is quite beholden to the dictator of Russia who offered bounties on American troops while at the same time the current occupant of the White House is taking money from projects intended to improve the quality of life of our troops. This is not an American president who supports American troops. Anyone at all who follows actual news, as opposed to one particularly filtered version of it, would know in an instant. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/376 "2020-09-30T12:02:43Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Trump: Look, I use the tax code to my advantage. Iā€™m smart. All good business people use the tax code to their advantage. Smart business guy, went to Wharton, okay? Ivy League. You graduated at the bottom of your class at a no name school. Thatā€™s why you donā€™t understand how business and the tax code works." This happened almost exactly as I said it would. Attacking Bidenā€™s intelligence and academic record? Check. Bringing up Burisma? Check. And if you listened carefully, there was a kind of veiled threat in there about going after Biden and Obama, IIRC. He wasnā€™t as explicit as I thought heā€™d be, but he said ā€œWe caught you guys spying on my campaignā€ or something to that effect. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/377 "2020-09-30T12:19:44Z")
Fine. You think Trump would do something that seems very much to me like treason. I do not. And yep, you havenā€™t persuaded me. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/378 "2020-09-30T12:52:25Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Fine. You think Trump would do something that seems very much to me like treason. I do not. And yep, you havenā€™t persuaded me. I donā€™t see how anyone who has been paying attention to the behavior and actions of Trump over the last five years would think that he has any consideration whatsoever for whether a given action is treasonous or not. Trump cares only about how a given action benefits himself in the present moment. Period. He doesnā€™t give a whit for our country, and would sell us out in a heartbeat. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/379 "2020-09-30T13:08:06Z")
Of what danger is the phrase ā€œtreasonousā€ to Trump if treason is not addressed by Congress? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/380 "2020-09-30T13:45:02Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Fine. You think Trump would do something that seems very much to me like treason. I do not. And yep, you havenā€™t persuaded me. Thatā€™s the beauty of starting out with your conclusion and nailing it in place. No amount of evidence or information will work if you set the bar infinitely high. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/381 "2020-09-30T14:28:43Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > What they are actually asking for is not ā€œevidenceā€ but rather ā€œProof beyond any conceivable doubt, that would convince me personally, given that I think Trump is the embodiment of perfection.ā€ It would be amusing if there werenā€™t so much at stake. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/382 "2020-09-30T15:46:01Z")
> [@robby](#): > > I donā€™t see how anyone who has been paying attention to the behavior and actions of Trump over the last five years would think that he has any consideration whatsoever for whether a given action is treasonous or not. Fine, you donā€™t respect my judgement on what I think Trump will or will not do. I can accept that. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Thatā€™s the beauty of starting out with your conclusion and nailing it in place. No amount of evidence or information will work if you set the bar infinitely high. I havenā€™t started with any conclusion, nor have I set any bars. I really donā€™t want to do a line by line answer to the actions you have posted about Trump. But how about one as an example. > [@](#): > > Has abandoned our allies, the Kurds. Agreed. Why did he do this? Because Putin paid him off, or what? Reprehensible behavior is not in and of itself evidence that someone will do anything. So yet again, your items are not evidence that Trump can be paid of by Putin. They are certainly proof that Trump is a horrible person and president. Why can you not accept that I think there is a line that even Trump wouldnā€™t cross? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/383 "2020-09-30T15:48:30Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Why can you not accept that I think there is a line that even Trump wouldnā€™t cross? We can accept that you think that. But thereā€™s no evidence that thereā€™s ever been a line he wouldnā€™t cross if he stood to benefit in some way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696.md?page=20)