# Donald Trump, tax avoider **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 27, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696 "2020-09-27T21:49:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/404 "2020-09-30T18:11:21Z")
We didn’t comment on it because it was factually incorrect. Musk didn’t lose it. Tesla did. Your cite even says so. Also, there is quite a bit of difference between taxable corporate earnings and stock value, and I’m rather embarrassed for you in having made the comparison. ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/405 "2020-09-30T18:12:36Z")
So Trump personally owns the property losing money , or he owns the company that owns the property? ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/406 "2020-09-30T18:13:04Z")
> [@MrMrmrmr](#): > > No one wants to respond to my post about Musk losing billions, and still being a billionaire, just as Trump has lost a fraction of that, and remains a billionaire? Musk didn’t lose billions. The company that Musk owns shares in lost billions. Musk still got paid by Tesla and Musk’s salary is part of the loss that Tesla incurred. If Musk applied the losses Tesla as his own personal deductions, it would be similar to what Trump did on his taxes. It would be like me applying those billions of losses on my own 1040 form because I own some shares in Tesla. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/407 "2020-09-30T18:15:24Z")
There does seem to be this constant circular argument going on. DOJ: We can’t indict the president while he is in office, it is a political issue that is up to the voters, we can only present the evidence. Voters: There wasn’t an indictment, so there must not be enough evidence for me to believe that he did it. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/408 "2020-09-30T18:19:34Z")
The Potus, in the American peoples first debate of 2020, called for a terrorist org to “stand by.” Now you need him to say “Attack”? If he says “Attack” then the issue will be did they actually do it, how much damage was done, and most of all did tormp “really mean it” in the terroristic sense. My prediction is that, for you, he didn’t really mean it. It was just a “quirk”, but we really need to get down to the details and find out what he did that was “illegal” under the law, in the lawbooks that they study in law school. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/409 "2020-09-30T18:22:26Z")
I, for one, think Elon Musk is more than a little bit like Trump, and his image as a successful businessman is overhyped. He does not have my vote in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/410 "2020-09-30T18:25:01Z")
Also didn’t comment on it because this thread is not about Musk. Musk has nothing to do with Trump’s taxes. At all. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/411 "2020-09-30T18:32:58Z")
You know who interpreted his remarks telling them to stand by to mean exactly what Trump intended it to mean? The [actual terrorists](https://news.yahoo.com/proud-boys-standing-down-standing-031200491.html) he is inciting. Your attempted spin, notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/412 "2020-09-30T18:36:53Z")
> [@MrMrmrmr](#): > > No one wants to respond to my post about Musk losing billions, and still being a billionaire, just as Trump has lost a fraction of that, and remains a billionaire? Why respond to a point that is beside the point? Musk isn’t president. He isn’t tasked with safeguarding the citizens of this nation. His personal financial situation is not at issue with respect to his ability to resist blackmail or manipulation by adverse foreign actors. Trump’s situation is very much a concern with respect to these things. ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/413 "2020-09-30T18:44:23Z")
The sole point of my post was to counter the argument that Trump must be broke because some of his companies lost millions. I gave an example of another billionaire that owns a lot of a company that is losing billions, and he is still a billionaire. How many bails did it take to make up that anyone said Musk was running for president? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/414 "2020-09-30T18:46:35Z")
I don’t need him to say anything. I need you to show how requesting that a group not act is the same as asking them to act. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/415 "2020-09-30T18:55:40Z")
As I’ve explained before, there’s a huge difference between Jeff Bezos/Amazon, Elon Musk/Tesla…and Trump & the Trump Org. The first two are publicly-traded companies. There is a lot more transparency about these companies. They have investors. And why do they have investors? Because investors read their financial reports that they have to disclose to regulators? Can these reports be falsified? Sure, but over time, accountants are much more likely to catch these kinds of irregularities just by having public documentation. Trump, on the other hand, doesn’t really show us that much. It’s hard to understand how he really makes his money. He’s also different from pretty much every presidential candidate who’s ever disclosed his tax records. If you believe Trump’s claims, he’s the richest candidate ever to run for the White House, yet he pays almost no taxes, whereas even those who are substantially less wealthy on the surface pay substantially more taxes. Those are wildly inconsistent truths that require a better explanation than “Yabbut, what about Tesla?!” ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/416 "2020-09-30T18:58:19Z")
If you think telling the proud boys to do anything at all as Potus during the presidential debate is OK, and saying “Stand by” is asking them to “not act” then I don’t think we’re speaking the same english. It was one of many anti democratic, fascistic feints tormp made last night. Do you really expect that in the debate he would say “OK proud boys. Go act!” He made his best attempt to get them in the tent, and a successful one. I get the feeling you aren’t the best at reading people. It seems to be your forte to not read human behavior well and then make demands that others explain why that would be. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/417 "2020-09-30T18:59:17Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I don’t need him to say anything. I need you to show how requesting that a group not act is the same as asking them to act. Asking a specific white supremist group to stand down acknowledges that he has a level of control and understanding with them, asking the same group to stand by is giving them an order. An order from the freaking commander in chief of our armed forces. He was asked to denounce all white supremist groups, but he choose to mention one by name. Thus elevating their relationship with him. Anything this group does now is on Trump. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/418 "2020-09-30T19:04:16Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > He was asked to denounce all white supremist groups, but he choose to mention one by name. Well, to be accurate, Trump mentioned the Proud Boys because, when he challenged Chris Wallace to tell him who he should denounce, and Wallace reiterated “white supremacists,” Biden specifically added “Proud Boys.” > [@](#): > > The stunning moment came when moderator Chris Wallace asked Trump if he was ready to condemn White supremacists and say they need to stand down during ongoing demonstrations across the country. > > “Sure, I’m willing to (tell them to stand down), but I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing. I’m willing to do anything. I want to see peace,” Trump said. > > “Say it. Do it. Say it,” Democratic nominee Joe Biden responded, encouraging Trump to condemn White supremacists. > > “Who would you like me to condemn?” Trump asked Wallace. Biden could be heard twice saying, “Proud Boys.” > > Trump continued: “Proud Boys – stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what. I’ll tell you what. Somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right wing problem.” [https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/30/politics/proud-boys-trump-white-supremacists-debate/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/30/politics/proud-boys-trump-white-supremacists-debate/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/419 "2020-09-30T19:05:52Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Asking a specific white supremist group to stand down Trump did **NOT** say “stand **down** ,” which means, “as you were – orders canceled.” Trump said “stand **by** ,” which means “wait for orders.” ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/420 "2020-09-30T19:08:55Z")
I stand corrected. My brain is getting fried by all of this. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/421 "2020-09-30T19:10:22Z")
If you are a fascist, and you are in the actual potus debate, just tone it down when addressing your base. Don’t tell them what to do specifically. Just say “stand by”. They love it. And you never told them to take an action so nobody knows you are responsible. OK go get em tiger! ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/422 "2020-09-30T19:12:49Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Well, to be accurate, Trump mentioned the Proud Boys because, when he challenged Chris Wallace to tell him who he should denounce, and Wallace reiterated “white supremacists,” Biden specifically added “Proud Boys. Exactly, and here the real story is being obscured based on what I find to be over-the-top charges, based on the few words Trump said. That story if of course that Trump refused to openly denounce such groups. That is what the lead story should be. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/423 "2020-09-30T19:20:53Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > If you are a fascist, and you are in the actual potus debate, just tone it down when addressing your base. Don’t tell them what to do specifically. Just say “stand by”. They love it. And you never told them to take an action so nobody knows you are responsible. OK go get em tiger! It wouldn’t make a difference anyway. Trump stood on a stage in front of cameras and an audience and told Russia to hack the Democrats’ servers, and the Russians did that very day. And his supporters still deny there was any connection at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696.md?page=22)