# Donald Trump, tax avoider **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 27, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696 "2020-09-27T21:49:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/424 "2020-09-30T19:20:56Z")
If a fire marshal is told to condemn arsonists, and rather than do so, instead tells the arsonists to stand by, and be ready to do something about the ‘real problem’, then sure, the fact that he didn’t condemn them is going to be overshadowed by the fact that he is giving them orders. What do you think “Proud Boys – stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what. I’ll tell you what. Somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right wing problem.” means, if not telling them that they need to be that someone? They took it that way. The message that was meant for them was received and appreciated. If he didn’t mean it that way, then he is responsible for coming out and clarifying what he meant, and condemning them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/425 "2020-09-30T19:22:34Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Okay. When he tells Proud Boys or anyone else to attack, then he will have called for insurrection So hearing “Ready…Aim…” doesn’t cause you any anxiety, because he hasn’t said “Fire!” yet? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/426 "2020-09-30T19:25:05Z")
That all sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But remember, I entered this discussion only to say that I don’t think what Trump said amounts to what Dr Deth said it did, namely that is was a call for “armed insurrection”. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/427 "2020-09-30T19:26:34Z")
It’s not the _same_, but he wasn’t requesting that they not act. He was requesting -pretty explicitly that they not act YET. The YET is implied by the words “stand by” which suggests that a request for the action under discussion is imminent. This is veiled threat, and the veil is pretty thin. I’m a little puzzled by the way you seem to give Trump so much benefit of the doubt. What’s up with that? For someone that purports not be a Trump supporter, you seem pretty supportive. I admit that I am completely contemptuous of Trump and I always have been. Maybe it’s because I’ve always been intensely interested in cults, con games and white collar crime. Sometimes, you don’t need to consider the entire body of evidence before making a judgement against someone. Sometimes, one data point is enough, if it’s strong enough. Donald Trump ran a con game that defrauded hundreds of people out of large sums of money. The scam, a get rich quick con game called Trump University, preyed on senior citizens and the desperate unemployed. The amounts were large enough to represent the life savings of many of the marks. People were encouraged to go into debt and give the money to Donald Trump, who praised them for mastering the art of using other people’s money. Trump U sucked people in slowly. The intro course was not that expensive and promised to teach you the secrets to obtaining independence and wealth. The secret was always…you need to buy the NEXT class to find that out. The final class, the end game, cost $35,000.00. Trump has led people to believe that this was some branding deal, that he just rented out his name to the real con artists. But that is not true. Trump U was one of Trump’s brainchild’s and he held an 80% financial stake. Even though he was never criminally prosecuted, a court did find that he had defrauded his students and ordered him to give everyone their money back. To me, this is a disqualifying event. He used his name to steal money he didn’t need from people that couldn’t afford to lose it, in a large scale and organized way. It’s factually undeniable that he did this. My opinions on his character and his trustworthiness all stem from this one data point. It’s not because I’m in a liberal bubble or reflexively hate everything he does. When I analyze his actions, I consider the parameters of his moral character and this particular thing, more than anything else, tells me where that boundary lies. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/428 "2020-09-30T19:26:55Z")
Fair enough. He called for people to be ready for armed insurrection. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/429 "2020-09-30T19:27:18Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > That all sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But remember, I entered this discussion only to say that I don’t think what Trump said amounts to what Dr Deth said it did, namely that is was a call for “armed insurrection”. When someone orders the guy with the rifle to “Fire!”, it’s too late to dodge the bullet. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/430 "2020-09-30T19:27:45Z")
But Czarcasm, come on, I never said that. Never said it. It causes me plenty of anxiety that Trump would not condemn such groups last night. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/431 "2020-09-30T19:30:45Z")
It gave me anxiety that he didn’t condemn white supremacists ever, not in the 2016 election, not after Charlottesville. Never in the nearly 4 years he’s held the office of President. Last night was just par for the course. No one expected him to condemn white supremacists, he’s had ample opportunity, and has never done so. What he did instead was to specifically address them and to give them orders to be ready for when he is going to call on them. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/432 "2020-09-30T19:34:23Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > That story if of course that Trump refused to openly denounce such groups. That is what the lead story should be. He didn’t simply fail to denounce them, he failed to denounce them while suggesting that they should stand by and be ready “to do something about Antifa and the left” because “Somebody’s got to”. Who’s the “left” if it’s not me, and other Democrats? The President of my country has asked a terrorist organization to stand by and be ready to attack me. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/433 "2020-09-30T19:52:30Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > > [@Gyrate](#): > > > > This is a man who once used his charitable foundation to pay Eric’s $8 Boy Scouts fees. Do you think he’d not claim everything he could? > > [Fake news!!!](https://www.bustle.com/p/did-trump-once-pay-his-sons-boy-scout-registration-fee-with-charity-money-72545) It was _$7._ He probably got Eric to get a dollar back. And took it from him. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/434 "2020-09-30T20:40:06Z")
“Should I shoot that guy?” “Stand down” Result: I lower my gun and I don’t shoot the guy. “Should I shoot that guy?” “Stand by” Result: I keep the gun on the guy and wait for orders about whether I should shoot the guy. This isn’t complicated, and it seems impossible to interpret this any other way. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/435 "2020-09-30T20:50:12Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Trump U sucked people in slowly. The intro course was not that expensive and promised to teach you the secrets to obtaining independence and wealth. The secret was always…you need to buy the NEXT class to find that out. The final class, the end game, cost $35,000.00. Let me guess… in the final class, you learned that the secret to great wealth was to start a university and tell people that for a large tuition fee, you’ll reveal to them the secrets to great wealth. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/436 "2020-09-30T20:53:31Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > When he tells Proud Boys or anyone else to attack, then he will have called for insurrection. Nope. When he tells them to stand ready to attack, then he will have called for insurrection and made himself guilty of sedition and treason. Oh. Wait. He already did. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/437 "2020-09-30T21:40:48Z")
It seems to me “stand back” means one thing, and “stand by” means another. So, did Trump mean “stand back until I call on you” or just the literal meaning, by which I would _guess_ he means is “don’t do anything.” As for “stand by”, it is clearly more ominous, but even taken with the former, does not rise to the level of actually calling for insurrection, IMO. It’s for this reason that I believe, again, that the bigger story is he was given a perfect opportunity to give such a condemnation, but couldn’t do it. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/438 "2020-09-30T21:47:26Z")
I meant to also say ETA: Btw, if I thought he _was_ calling for insurrection, that would be a WAY bigger lead story to me. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/439 "2020-09-30T22:27:20Z")
I think you have made an excellent point here. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/440 "2020-09-30T22:29:29Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > It seems to me “stand back” means one thing, and “stand by” means another. So, did Trump mean “stand back until I call on you” or just the literal meaning, by which I would _guess_ he means is “don’t do anything.” As for “stand by”, it is clearly more ominous, but even taken with the former, does not rise to the level of actually calling for insurrection, IMO. It’s for this reason that I believe, again, that the bigger story is he was given a perfect opportunity to give such a condemnation, but couldn’t do it. YMMV. It seems very hard for you to comprehend what you hear. Trump said [STAND BACK AND STAND BY](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5daf53c30e17a4220c767a1e/1601479589495-6BXTTBWTF32YC7IY09NF/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kBiAGbGlE41MJhKJyrcCOHtZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZUJFbgE-7XRK3dMEBRBhUpxhj2evltktk0O0gEyYivk_X80BCNpiRMEPk9xjvT5MhPIHrgL3IiRvJl7ubVjwGFw/image-asset.png), which clearly means “don’t do anything right now but wait for orders.” > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > “Should I shoot that guy?” > “Stand down” > > Result: I lower my gun and I don’t shoot the guy. > > “Should I shoot that guy?” > “Stand by” > > Result: I keep the gun on the guy and wait for orders about whether I should shoot the guy. > > This isn’t complicated, and it seems impossible to interpret this any other way. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Trump did **NOT** say “stand **down** ,” which means, “as you were – orders canceled.” > > Trump said “stand **by** ,” which means “wait for orders.” ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/441 "2020-09-30T22:54:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > That, if nothing else, would surely force him to pay the same hefty local income taxes that any other Washington D.C. resident, living in Washington D.C., would have to fork over for that sort of salary, be they an executive at Northrop Grumman or a surgeon at some hospital. Not to hijack, but do officials like the POTUS, VPOTUS, or members of Congress actually pay local income tax when they don’t actually reside in the District (which, unlike states, cannot tax non-residents income)? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/442 "2020-09-30T23:11:31Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It seems very hard for you to comprehend what you hear. I disagree that it “clearly” means what you say it does. I said why I felt this way. I do respect your interpretation of those words though. But it’s just five words. Isn’t there some room for disagreement on what Trump actually meant? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/443 "2020-09-30T23:16:05Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Isn’t there some room for disagreement on what Trump actually meant? - Nope. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696.md?page=23)