# Donald Trump, tax avoider **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 27, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696 "2020-09-27T21:49:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/505 "2020-10-01T21:03:47Z")
If the seven is actually ten, is that wildly in error? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/506 "2020-10-01T21:12:56Z")
**If you claim he was in charge of 515 businesses, then _you_ are wildly in error.** ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/507 "2020-10-01T21:15:10Z")
the 7 is much higher than ten, we are up to at least 20 cited failed business ventures in this thread alone, and that’s without really trying. Plus the charitable trust, which, as I said, wasn’t really a business, but was still shut down because it was breaking the law. and the 515 is not nearly accurate either. Most of those are shell and holding companies that have no real assets, and many of them, he is at most an honorary board member, there for his name, not his skill at operating a business. ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/508 "2020-10-01T21:15:22Z")
Ok,I admit my error in not reviewing my link. Let’s start with a new claim. Trump is a billionaire. Forbes on 9/8/20 It has been a tough year for President Trump. On top of impeachment and the pandemic, his net worth has dropped an estimated $600 million since last September, to $2.5 billion. That puts him at No. 339 on The Forbes 400, down 64 spots from a year ago. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/509 "2020-10-01T21:17:47Z")
Could you provide a link, please? I would like to review the article for myself. ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/510 "2020-10-01T21:22:56Z")
> **[Trump’s Net Worth Drops $600 Million In A Year To $2.5 Billion](https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2020/09/08/trumps-net-worth-drops-600-million-in-a-year-to-25-billion/#49ab3bb22363)** > > The billionaire-in-chief’s net worth plummets nearly 20%. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/511 "2020-10-01T21:32:45Z")
I think we’d count it as a charitable bust. ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/512 "2020-10-01T22:27:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Could you provide a link, please? I would like to review the article for myself. Is an hour enough time to review a short article? Want to back off the claim he is broke, or has a negative net worth? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/513 "2020-10-01T23:36:03Z")
Did I forget to seek your permission to partake of real life for awhile? If so, I humbly apologize. 🙄 I refuse to back off from a claim that I never made in the first place, btw. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/514 "2020-10-02T00:19:42Z")
Hell, **I** willingly claim he is broke and/or has a negative net worth. He lies about absolutely everything else, it’s safe to assume he is lying about this, too. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/515 "2020-10-02T02:43:13Z")
> [@MrMrmrmr](#): > > Ok,I admit my error in not reviewing my link. > Let’s start with a new claim. Trump is a billionaire. > > Forbes on 9/8/20 > It has been a tough year for President Trump. On top of impeachment and the pandemic, his net worth has dropped an estimated $600 million since last September, to $2.5 billion. That puts him at No. 339 on The Forbes 400, down 64 spots from a year ago. My impression is that Forbes bases their value based on publicly-available information. I don’t think all of Trump’s debts would be known by Forbes, so I don’t think they would have included them when calculating Trump’s net worth. If all the info included in the tax forms was publicly available, I would guess that the press would have already known about the $400M in debts and the tax forms would have been no big deal. When they say his net worth dropped, they were basing that on the value of the real estate holdings they know he owns. But if he gets a $100M secret loan from some shady characters, Forbes won’t know about that and won’t have any idea they should deduct $100M from his net worth. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/516 "2020-10-02T06:31:01Z")
And - again - Trump is still considered such a poor business risk that no US bank will lend to him. Which is rather odd if he’s such a successful “billionaire”. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/517 "2020-10-02T13:27:22Z")
I will admit that I do knot _know_ Trump’s wealth. However, I will say that neither does Forbes. They are not an investigative department, they do not do forensic accounting, they rely on publicly available information and voluntary disclosures. And that article was written before the latest news came out about his taxes and debts. I have many reasons to doubt that figure, if nothing else, the fact that no US bank will give him a loan is a little suspect, as most banks would be very happy to lend to such an affluent person. You can see that he has lied to Forbes before. > **[Why We Took Trump Off The Forbes 400 During His Decade Of Tax Losses](https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2019/05/08/why-we-took-trump-off-the-forbes-400-during-his-decade-of-tax-losses/#42840d0d33d9)** > > Forbes republishes a classic 1990 investigation into Donald Trump's finances. But, let’s go ahead and say that he is in fact worth as much as the Forbes article that you have cited thinks he is. In that case, he is a horrible businessman. Wealth attracts wealth, and it is actually pretty easy to make money if you start with more than 99.99% of others. But, as easy as it is to make money, he has made less than he would have if he had just put his money into index funds. If he had done so, he would have more than twice what his current worth is. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/518 "2020-10-02T14:17:38Z")
I doubt it’s even a billion. They’re using estimates based on known financial information, but much of Trump’s financial information is not known - that is the issue. Trump’s LLCs are probably used in the same way that Enron used its multiple companies to hide losses. What anyone with common sense knows is, Trump’s taxes aren’t normal – like, at all. How is he paying himself? How can a billionaire pay no taxes? That just does not add up in any conceivable way. I don’t disagree that he has access to cash and he has assets that can be fairly easily liquidated or converted, which is probably how Forbes calculated some of his wealth overall. But he’s getting money from someone else. It’s probably not really his money either. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/519 "2020-10-02T14:28:32Z")
And to be fair, he did get nearly half a billion from his time on the Apprentice. That actually is “legitimate” income. But that was him as an employee, an actor, not as a company that he owned. Just like RDJ played Tony Stark well, but I would never let him mess around with any technology, Trump plays a billionaire well, but should never be let around any finances. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/520 "2020-10-02T14:36:26Z")
If you hit the lottery for half a billion dollars you can pay taxes on the lump sum one time, tuck the rest in a non-interest bearing account, live off the residual and _never pay income taxes again._ I’m ok with that. You “earned” it, you paid your fair share; it just happened to all happen in one year. A wealth tax would be enormously complicated to administer. A fair tax code with high progressivity (and a fully funded IRS to oversee it) would be much healthier for the country. Current rates are ridiculously low and the current code is far more complex than it needs to be. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/521 "2020-10-02T14:40:11Z")
Was this meant to be in another thread? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/522 "2020-10-02T14:41:54Z")
Yes. Goddammit. Apologies to all. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/523 "2020-10-02T14:43:15Z")
Exactly. Look, Trump can make money - no doubt about that. He can make more money than a million of me - no doubt about that either. But so can Lebron James or Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson. That doesn’t make them great businessmen (though they could be, for all I know). ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/524 "2020-10-02T15:04:58Z")
Right, like I said in my example, RDJ made a bunch of money acting like a guy that could build an Arc reactor. That doesn’t mean that I would trust him to check my tire pressure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696.md?page=27)