# Donald Trump, tax avoider **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 27, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696 "2020-09-27T21:49:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/61 "2020-09-28T12:55:39Z")
First, the infrastructure plan. Then, the ACA replacement. Then, the taxes. They are the releases of the future and they always will be. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/62 "2020-09-28T13:01:16Z")
IRS has a really tight security. You have to go through background check to even enter some of their buildings. Not even the military does that for most of their bases. Based on that it would surprise me if they don’t know who got this info to leak. Maybe the person used a fake account and can’t be traced but even then they might have an IP address to look at. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/63 "2020-09-28T13:04:03Z")
My Trumper co-workers were discussing all this tax stuff this morning. Them: “We all cheat on our taxes. What’s the big deal here? Plus, he’s NOT cheating or really breaking any laws”. Me: “Even if he didn’t cheat, it just shows, once again, that he is a pathological liar” Them: “All politicians are liars”. Me: "Then why doesn’t he just say “The story is correct. I paid little to no income tax because I am smart and use the tax code to my advantage.”? Them: “Is it a law that he has to release them? I wouldn’t release mine. Its private stuff.” These are the people Trump was talking about in his "shoot someone and not lose any votes’ comment. BTW, how can an audit possibly take ten years? I don’t care how complex his returns are, ten years is unacceptable. Has the audit come to a standstill since he took office? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/64 "2020-09-28T13:34:13Z")
He “hired” his daughter as a consultant for the Trump Organization, [paying her a fee of $747,622](https://www.politicususa.com/2020/09/27/ivanka-trump-tax-fraud.html). Now, that alone is interesting. I would sure love my company to hire me as a consultant to provide services to them that I’m providing anyway because I’m an employee and drop three quarters of a million my way. Why would he do such a thing? Oh, because he deducted that as a business expense. No money was made, no money was lost, but he got a nice little tax deduction for himself based on nothing. Sound legal to you? And this is leaving aside the non-tax cheat part of the story which is that Trump is in debt up to his orange eyeballs to the tune of [over 400 million](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-s-tax-records-show-he-s-carrying-421million-in-loans-and-debt/ar-BB19u8SZ?li=BBnbcA1) (plus the 100 million he is likely to owe the IRS in penalties). This all comes due in the next few years, and his income is apparently nonexistent. You think those lenders having that much leverage over the president isn’t an issue? You think that might have something to do with Trump’s apoplexy about the federal reserve rates? ---
**Author:** ![bobsmom101](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobsmom101/32/2867_2.png) [@bobsmom101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobsmom101)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/65 "2020-09-28T13:40:46Z")
\ 👍 ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/66 "2020-09-28T13:42:00Z")
the old saying is if you owe the bank $10,000 and can’t pay you have a problem. If you owe $400 million, the bank has a problem. They can certainly foreclose on properties to get their money back. Or force him to sell assets to pay. Being president does not stop that. ---
**Author:** ![bobsmom101](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobsmom101/32/2867_2.png) [@bobsmom101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobsmom101)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/67 "2020-09-28T13:44:27Z")
It’s probably not someone at the IRS. The CFSG has an army of lawyers, CPAs and ex-wives (and _their_ lawyers and CPAs). All of those people, plus their own armies of paralegals and number-crunchers, have access to at least some of the returns. What amazes me is that they haven’t been leaked sooner. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/68 "2020-09-28T13:44:54Z")
From the New Yorker: > **[Donald Trump Barely Pays Any Taxes: Will Anyone Care?](https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/donald-trump-tax-returns-irs-750-dollars)** > > Will the latest bombshell change anything? The election is the only way to know. > A reader of the Times bombshell, then, can reasonably ask, how is this different from the last bombshell? How is it different from the memoirs by Mary Trump and Michael Cohen? From calling fallen U.S. soldiers “suckers” and “losers”? From all the generals, intelligence officers, and government officials telling Bob Woodward in “Rage” that Trump poses a threat to national security that is even more grave than anyone imagines? > It is hard to imagine, though, that every Trumpist—or, more importantly, every undecided voter in the swing states—will relish hearing that he paid, while in office, seven hundred and fifty dollars in federal income taxes. That is a stark number. How many teachers, nurses, grocery clerks, farmers, factory workers, bus drivers, truck drivers, and countless others will find that acceptable? How many will fail to compare it to their own tax bill? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/69 "2020-09-28T13:55:07Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I saw this story on the news this evening, and my first thought was: “Red meat for the jackals at SDMB!” Thanks for not letting me down. > > As a supporter of President Trump, here is my take: Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that the NYT is NOT lying for a change. I don’t believe that for a minute, but let’s grant it just to see where we go from there. I haven’t read the articles, but for those of you that have, is there ANY indication that President Trump is being indicted for tax fraud? For filing illegal returns? For taking unwarranted deductions? Is there ANY INDICATION AT ALL that he has broken any tax laws? And that the IRS is coming down on him for it? If he has broken laws, them I’m all for prosecuting him. But if he hasn’t, then WHAT’S THE BIG FUCKING DEAL? How many of YOU pay more taxes than you legally need to? And even if you do, that is not an obligation on other people to voluntarily do the same. > > If he broke the law, prosecute him, and I’ll be right there with you. If he hasn’t, then move on to your next pathetic attempt to slander the man with false accusations. This is just such an amazing example of the alternate factual universe that so many Trump supporters appear to live in. The NYT has far from a perfect factual record, but they usually get things mostly right. And crucially, when they get things wrong, they admit it. On the other hand, Trump pretty much lies about everything, especially when it’s about HIM. When he’s called out on it, he doubles down. He NEVER admits lies or even mistakes. And here’s a Trump supporter taking Trump’s word for it, despite his factual record of continuous fabrication. Trump doesn’t offer the real records – he doesn’t offer anything. And this Trump supporter just assumes Trump is right, even though he’s been lying about himself and everything else for so many years. Just amazing to see. And demonstrative of how pointless it is to engage at least a very significant portion of Trump’s supporters. How do you have a rational discussion with someone who believes the Earth is flat, or that Europe doesn’t exist, or that the lizard people are controlling everything? Or someone who believes that what Trump says has any correlation with facts? ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/70 "2020-09-28T13:55:37Z")
I don’t think the Trumpsters care that he paid no taxes. They will blather on about the difference between wealth and income or keep saying that managing to avoid taxes makes him smart. The fact that he is hemorrhaging money is different however. He is losing money and is $400 million in debt and is clearly a bad businessman. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/71 "2020-09-28T13:59:41Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > As a supporter of President Trump, here is my take… tl;dr ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/72 "2020-09-28T14:00:30Z")
normally casinos are not impacted much at all when the economy goes down. He should not be losing money on casinos. This time it’s different because of the ban on large crowds. Not sure but I think even someone not at the IRS leaks tax info they could still face prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/73 "2020-09-28T14:03:23Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > He’s obviously not a billionaire and does not have fuck you money. And has been pointed out upthread is extremely vulnerable to any bad actor or government that could bail him out. Which, of course, is precisely why the Enoulments Clause exists. [one big reason at least] ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/74 "2020-09-28T14:07:23Z")
Yeah, the hardcore Trumpsters won’t care, but I have to imagine there are at least a few middle-class Joes/Janes who are gonna say, “WTF?!” At least 3 folk above have suggested how Biden should directly (and IMO effectively) address this the first chance he gets - and repeatedly thereafter. Indict the tax system, and brand Trump as an incompetent/loser. But I bet any money, however Joe responds, it will be far more watered down and less effective that the internet posters above. Most likely, he’ll come up w/ some weak-ass attempt at a clever sound bite, that will just come across as awkward and constructed by committee. Who thinks I’m wrong? And if I’m right - why is that? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/75 "2020-09-28T14:22:40Z")
The country would be in far better shape if we’d spent the billions poured into the War on Drugs into investigation and prosecution of white collar financial crimes. The last few decades have been the Golden Age of Grift and it should be no surprise that the guy with the gold toilet is one of those who has cashed in on it bigly. Who does he owe the fucking money to? The country needs to know, tim and every other Trump supporter. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/76 "2020-09-28T14:29:54Z")
So, did he break any laws or was he using the law code to the fullest extent? Would any of you NOT get a deduction on you income taxes if you could legally do so? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/77 "2020-09-28T14:36:10Z")
He certainly may have. Evaluating properties one way on his tax returns and another way on loan applications could constitute fraud at one end or the other. But the bigger picture is that he is not the successful business man he has continually portrayed himself as and he is about to have serious cash flow problems by leveraging himself to unknown entities. The American people need to know who those entities are. The IRS also wants $79 million back from him. Nobody reasonable is buying this “he’s simply minimizing his tax bill” horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/78 "2020-09-28T14:37:07Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > So, did he break any laws or was he using the law code to the fullest extent? > > Would any of you NOT get a deduction on you income taxes if you could legally do so? - 1. I don’t believe for a second that Trump(and his minions) would bend, fold, spindle and mutilate the tax code to the point it’s screaming for mercy. Why has he been in audit for ten years if what he did was strictly legal? 2. It doesn’t bother you that the rich ruling class hasn’t biased the tax code to allow such a difference between the mega rich and peasants? Does it make sense that a (alleged) multi-billionaire pays less tax than a kid working part time at McDonald’s? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/79 "2020-09-28T14:40:59Z")
The Trump Supporter Narrative: Scenario 1 - Trump pays lots of taxes: “This proves that he’s a brilliant businessman who is making lots of money!” Scenario 2 - Trump pays little to no taxes: “This proves that he’s a brilliant businessman who knows how to use the tax code to his benefit!” Either way, reality is interpreted in a way that supports the Approved Version of Reality. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696/80 "2020-09-28T14:42:05Z")
Trump admitted on twitter that the facts are accurate – just complained that the taxes were “illegally obtained”. So to any Trump supporters doubting the accuracy of the reporting – Trump reveals that the facts of the story are correct. > If the facts were inaccurate, it’d be very easy for him to demonstrate this. It’s pretty telling that he doesn’t even try. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-tax-avoider/921696.md?page=5)