# Donald Trump: The First White President \[article in The Atlantic by Ta-Nehisi Coates\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725 "2017-09-07T13:01:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/321 "2017-09-11T22:40:37Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > It gets really tiring hearing about ‘white’ this, ‘white’ that from every Liberal commentator. Sorry Trump won. Not my fault. Didn’t vote for him. Tired of hearing about ‘whites’, ‘white privilege’, ‘whiteness.’ Sorry Trump’s in office. Not my fault. He’s more orange than he is white, anyway. You can have him. Not gonna be punished for it. No one is suggesting that you should be punished for it. For some reason you insist on arguing with these fantasy liberals from right-wing radioland, when there are plenty of real-world liberals on this board that you could engage with. Would you rather know what real-world liberals believe as opposed to whatever right-wing infotainers pretend they do? ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/322 "2017-09-11T22:43:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No one is suggesting that you should be punished for it. > > For some reason you insist on arguing with these fantasy liberals from right-wing radioland, when there are plenty of real-world liberals on this board that you could engage with. Would you rather know what real-world liberals believe as opposed to whatever right-wing infotainers pretend they do? I’d rather not talk about it period, but White Liberals insist that race is the only thing worth talking about. I met a Black Woman today named Zenobia on my way out of my old College, having had to pick up some things. We walked to the bus and had a nice conversation about the school and how shitty the CUNY system is. It was funny: Not once did race enter into it. I didn’t have any desire to touch her hair, or ask her about her name. We talked as two individuals, one of whom happened to be White, the other who happened to be Black. It’s the White Far-Left, and Nationalist Alt-Right, that are obsessed with race. Not regular people. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/323 "2017-09-11T22:52:10Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > I’d rather not talk about it period, but White Liberals insist that race is the only thing worth talking about. No we don’t. We talk about lots and lots of different things. > [@](#): > > I met a Black Woman today named Zenobia on my way out of my old College, having had to pick up some things. We walked to the bus and had a nice conversation about the school and how shitty the CUNY system is. It was funny: Not once did race enter into it. I didn’t have any desire to touch her hair, or ask her about her name. We talked as two individuals, one of whom happened to be White, the other who happened to be Black. Sounds like many, may conversations that I’ve had. Most of the conversations, in fact, that I have don’t involve race. > [@](#): > > It’s the White Far-Left, and Nationalist Alt-Right, that are obsessed with race. Not regular people. I tend to think that you’re married to this idea no matter what I say. That’s a shame. Sometimes it’s okay to talk about race and racism. These are real issues that affect real people. If you ever want to consider that maybe we’re honest in our concerns and what we talk about, then we’ll be here. If you just want to spew hatred and negativity about white liberals, then you’d probably be happier in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/324 "2017-09-12T02:05:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Voter Identification _is_ a return to Jim Crow laws. The GOP is strongly in favor of this. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Ugh. Even if that were true, which it isn’t, it has nothing to do with Trump. The push for voter ID is a state issue, not a federal one, and predates the Trump administration. This. Care to take another swing anyone? How has Trump brought about some sort of wave or even a proposal to reverse any minority civil rights? What particular minority gain does Trump favor reversing? ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/325 "2017-09-12T03:59:32Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This. Care to take another swing anyone? How has Trump brought about some sort of wave or even a proposal to reverse any minority civil rights? What particular minority gain does Trump favor reversing? I’m not sure exactly what you’re looking for here, but… Trump has reversed (or signaled his intention to reverse, whatever) Obama’s moratorium on military supplies being provided to local police departments; police brutality disproportionately affects black people. Trump has announced the pending abolishment of DACA, which doesn’t officially make any racial distinction, but in practice affects Latinos the most and Asians second. And then there’s his ban on transgender people in the military. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/326 "2017-09-12T04:43:30Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This. Care to take another swing anyone? How has Trump brought about some sort of wave or even a proposal to reverse any minority civil rights? What particular minority gain does Trump favor reversing? > **[Opinion | Another blow to voter-ID laws — and the Trump Justice Department](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/08/24/another-blow-to-voter-id-laws-and-the-trump-justice-department/?utm_term=.b9b77a8cf6bd)** > > Access to voting should be an issue in every state and federal election. > **[Trump’s voter-fraud commission wants to know voting history, party ID and...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/29/trumps-voter-fraud-commission-wants-to-know-the-voting-history-party-id-and-address-of-every-voter-in-america/?utm_term=.18d90ab5b8c9)** > > The Election Integrity Commission says it wants to make the information public. [http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/donald-trump-voter-id-law-fraud-226832](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/donald-trump-voter-id-law-fraud-226832) > **[States push new voter requirements, fueled by Trump](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/states-push-new-voter-requirements-fueled-trump-n780611)** > > Trump wants to prove millions of "illegal" ballots cost him the popular vote. But a flurry of new state voter ID laws is likely to have an immediate impact. Trump backs Jim Crow Voter ID laws. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/327 "2017-09-12T11:32:39Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > I’d rather not talk about it period Then what the hell are you doing in a thread specifically dedicated to the discussion of whiteness and its cultural impacts? Nobody forced you to come into this thread and post on a subject you don’t want to talk about. There are a gazillion other threads dealing with non-racial subjects all over these boards. You are entirely free to go post in any of them and stop cluttering up this one with your incessant content-free whining that other people sometimes choose to discuss race. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/328 "2017-09-12T12:09:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Then what the hell are you doing in a thread specifically dedicated to the discussion of whiteness and its cultural impacts? Nobody forced you to come into this thread and post on a subject you don’t want to talk about. > > There are a gazillion other threads dealing with non-racial subjects all over these boards. You are entirely free to go post in any of them and stop cluttering up this one with your incessant content-free whining that other people sometimes choose to discuss race. What he means is that he doesn’t want anyone talking about it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/329 "2017-09-12T13:20:17Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This. Care to take another swing anyone? How has Trump brought about some sort of wave or even a proposal to reverse any minority civil rights? What particular minority gain does Trump favor reversing? He’s asking the military to change their position on admitting transgendered folk. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/330 "2017-09-12T13:31:36Z")
[ul] [li]Reversing pro-voting positions on cases involving the Voting Rights Act[/li][li]Attempting to ban immigration from several Muslim-majority countries while admitting Christians from those countries[/li][li]Reversing positions on protection for transgender students under Title IX[/li][li]Reestablishing use of for-profit prisons[/li][li]Abandoning review of shoddy forensic science in criminal convictions, disproportionately used to imprison innocent black people[/li][li]Reversing positions on Title VII’s application to sexual orientation[/li][li]Reviewing and likely refusing to enforce consent decrees won against racist police practices[/li][li]Reversing charging and sentencing guidance designed to reduce mass incarceration[/li][/ul] That’s off the top of my head. I could go on. People who ask a question like that aren’t paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/331 "2017-09-12T15:13:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I doubt it – I think minorities and young people would have turned out in similar numbers as ‘12, which would have carried Obama relatively comfortably. But I don’t think this takes anything away from Coates’ (or my) arguments – Trump’s success, or near-success had he lost, can be explained by these factors and others, and white supremacism remains a very significant threat (if one accepts this argument) even if the white supremacists’ favored candidate loses. > > That there’s even the significant possibility that a (functionally) white supremacist candidate (assuming you accept this about Trump) can win a major party’s nomination in the present is horrifying by itself, and demonstrates the remaining power and influence of white supremacism. > > Did you read the article? Yes I read it and I think its is a tortured analysis. It ignores too much empirical evidence. I’m sure that racists voted for Trump over Hillary but they voted for Romney over Obama as well. Obama won in 2012 with 38% of the white vote while Romney got 60% of the white vote Trump beat Hillary in 2016 with 58% of the white vote while Hillary got 37% of the white vote. Where you see bigger gaps is in the minority vote. A larger percentage of blacks, Hispanics and Asians voted for Trump than for Romney. Sure Trump was pandering to racists and yes racism exists and is real. But there are other factors that were much more significant to Trump’s victory, particularly the weakness of his candidate’s campaign. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/332 "2017-09-12T16:02:00Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Then what the hell are you doing in a thread specifically dedicated to the discussion of whiteness and its cultural impacts? Nobody forced you to come into this thread and post on a subject you don’t want to talk about. No, it is not. It is dedicated on whether or not Trump won by the white racist vote. Yes, "whiteness’ (whatever the fuck that is) bears on it, but you’re taking it down a sidetrack. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/333 "2017-09-12T18:52:02Z")
Although it offers no new insight, [here is another article](http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/09/segregated-america-trump-inevitable-170910165049068.html) with views that intersect those of OP’s link. BTW, am I the only one surprised and disappointed by **Reddy Mercury** ’s banning? Whatever his faults he struck me as sincere. (Yes, I realize that he violated a rule.) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/334 "2017-09-12T19:25:10Z")
[moderating] > [@septimus](#): > > BTW, am I the only one surprised and disappointed by **Reddy Mercury** ’s banning? Whatever his faults he struck me as sincere. (Yes, I realize that he violated a rule.) Please take any discussion about moderation activities, of which banning is included, to ATMB, if desired. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/335 "2017-09-12T20:20:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, it is not. It is dedicated on whether or not Trump won by the white racist vote. Yes, "whiteness’ (whatever the fuck that is) bears on it, but you’re taking it down a sidetrack. If you think the issue of “whiteness” and its cultural impacts is a “sidetrack” in this discussion, I think you need to reread the OP: > [@OP](#): > > The article utilizes the concept of “whiteness” very frequently. In my experience, this is a frequently misunderstood concept. It’s not the biological fact of ancestry or skin color. It’s a sociological phenomenon that was manufactured sometime around the 17th-18th centuries, largely in the US (but also elsewhere), in order to pit lower classes against each other such that the wealthy and powerful can remain wealthy and powerful. […] There’s much more to read about this, in these links and elsewhere, but the thrust is that relations between whites and blacks in America were deliberately made worse by those in power, through laws and cultural practices, thus creating a sense of “whiteness” that didn’t exist before in that form. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/336 "2017-09-12T21:04:07Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The “expansion of what counted as white” occurred **because** of growing commitment to “the superiority of whiteness”. The notion of general white racial superiority was key to the formation of an inclusive racial category of “whiteness” in the first place, as opposed to just a bunch of different European ethnicities despising one another along with non-Europeans. What evidence do you have for this? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/337 "2017-09-13T00:34:23Z")
> [@treis](#): > > What evidence do you have for this? For example, the racial-status change of Irish people when they came from Europe, where they were regarded by many other Europeans as racially “different” and where there were few black people to compare them with, to the US where they successfully defined themselves as “white” alongside other white Americans. Similar “status upgrades” occurred for other European ethnicities that had not always previously been classed as “white”, such as Italians and Jews. It was the supreme importance of the black-white racial divide in America—i.e., the construction of “whiteness” as crucially involving superiority to black people—that opened up the racial category “white” to various non-black people who hadn’t always been included in it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/338 "2017-09-13T04:05:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > For example, the racial-status change of Irish people when they came from Europe, where they were regarded by many other Europeans as racially “different” . . . You appear to be claiming that in Europe, Europeans regarded Irish as, in some way, different. I would really like to seem some evidence of that. (English, as opposed to European, antipathy had a specific set of circumstances including differences of religion and a constant tension as the Irish held sporadic attempts to gain independence.) If you are simply saying that European-descended folks in the U.S. regarded Irish as inferior, I believe that there is a different dynamic at work. Every new ethnic or national group that immigrated to the U.S. has gone through a period of exclusion and disdain. Even the Germans were initially scorned. The Irish experience appeared different simply because the Irish period of immigration lasted longer than that of most groups. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/339 "2017-09-13T04:35:11Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > For example, the racial-status change of Irish people when they came from Europe, where they were regarded by many other Europeans as racially “different” and where there were few black people to compare them with, to the US where they successfully defined themselves as “white” alongside other white Americans. This is definitely not true. Their racial status changed little when they came to America. In the 1800s it was common to see “No Irish Need To Apply” and cartoons depicting them as apes in newspapers. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Similar “status upgrades” occurred for other European ethnicities that had not always previously been classed as “white”, such as Italians and Jews. It was the supreme importance of the black-white racial divide in America—i.e., the construction of “whiteness” as crucially involving superiority to black people—that opened up the racial category “white” to various non-black people who hadn’t always been included in it. Again, definitely not true. Italians were not welcomed as white when they came to this country: > [@](#): > > The United States Immigration Commission concluded in the infamous 1911 Dillingham report: “Certain kinds of criminality are inherent in the Italian race. In the popular mind, crimes of personal violence, robbery, blackmail and extortion are peculiar to the people of Italy.” > **[Opinion | When America Barred Italians (Published 2017)](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/opinion/illegal-immigration-italian-americans.html?mcubz=0)** > > My impoverished relatives came to America illegally in an era when Italians were widely viewed as natural born criminals. Sound familiar? It was a gradual change over time. These ethnic groups were discriminated against less and less as they became native born ethnic groups, lines blurred through intermarriage, and new groups arrived to be discriminated against. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/340 "2017-09-13T19:51:07Z")
> [@treis](#): > > This is definitely not true. Their racial status changed little when they came to America. […] Again, definitely not true. Italians were not welcomed as white when they came to this country: :dubious: Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply (and mistakenly thought it was clear I wasn’t implying) that “quasi-white” immigrant groups such as Irish and Italians were **immediately** “upgraded” to the “white” category as soon as they arrived. It was crucially their identification with white racism that opened up that category to them, as described in [this discussion of David Roediger’s book _Working Toward Whiteness_ on the white immigrant experience](https://theundefeated.com/features/white-immigrants-werent-always-considered-white-and-acceptable/): > [@](#): > > They soon learned, though, when whites said “prove yourself,” helping protect and expand white supremacy was considered convincing evidence. > > They watched whites abuse blacks, mimicked whatever they saw and whiteness — the carrot they had long reached for — slowly came closer to their grasp. […] > > As one Slovakian woman in Connecticut said, “I always tell my children not to play with the nigger people’s children, but they always play with them just the same … This place now is all spoiled, and all the people live like pigs because the niggers they come and live here with the decent white people and they want to raise up their children with our children.” > > New immigrants’ participation in the widespread use of racially restrictive covenants, an integral tool in achieving residential segregation, was most crucial in their proving themselves. […] > > Thus, when New Deal-era politics put home ownership at the center of the American dream by making more families homeowners, whites needed new immigrants’ assistance in making Negro-free neighborhoods. > [@treis](#): > > It was a gradual change over time. I’m not saying it wasn’t. My point is that it was a change propelled largely by the fundamental racism at the core of the construction of the concept of “whiteness”. > [@tomndebb](#): > > (English, as opposed to European, antipathy had a specific set of circumstances including differences of religion and a constant tension as the Irish held sporadic attempts to gain independence.) Nope, it [goes back centuries before a difference of religion existed](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/irish-butt-of-english-racism-for-more-than-eight-centuries-1342976.html). Twelfth-century Popes also called the Irish “barbarous” and “filthy” (and note that this was half a millennium or more after the Irish had become part of the Catholic Church). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725.md?page=18)