# Donald Trump: The First White President \[article in The Atlantic by Ta-Nehisi Coates\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725 "2017-09-07T13:01:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/441 "2017-09-18T18:39:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think he means both, based on my reading and understanding of his many articles and statements on the subject beyond this specific quote. Yes, but “seriously” contains “successful” but not vice versa. So when you say “successful” you are leaving out the more important part. If I say that Jack is not only tall, but gigantic, you are missing the point if you report that I say Jack is tall. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/442 "2017-09-18T18:52:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes, but “seriously” contains “successful” but not vice versa. So when you say “successful” you are leaving out the more important part. If I say that Jack is not only tall, but gigantic, you are missing the point if you report that I say Jack is tall. Okay, I should have used both words. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/443 "2017-09-18T19:08:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, I’m referring to the entire quote, from which you left off this portion: > > “Reparations is not one possible tool against white supremacy. It is the indispensable tool against white supremacy.” > > If it is indispensable, that means one cannot dispense with it and still be fighting against white supremacy. Do you agree with that? I’ve only lurked in this thread because its descent into pedantic parsing has left me without any foothold, but I have to respond to what looks like a relentless pursuit to find fault and offense so you can hand wave the larger point. The larger point is that people want to say they are against righting past wrongs. They want to say they are for a more just, more equal society. They want to say they are against white supremacy and its ugly legacy. But when it comes to awarding damages to those most impacted by slavery, these same people flip their shit and start crying unfair and denying that past wrongs translate to present problems. You’re faulting Coates for deploying what is common in persuasive essays: the “crime” of stating an opinion without hedging it so that it doesn’t offend people who are guilty of that very thing he’s calling out as a problem. He could’ve just as easily written “Education is not a possible tool against female disempowerment worldwide. It is the indispensable tool against female disempowerment worldwide.” Even if one disagreed with this statement, an open mind would appreciate that such bluntness is more effective in communicating the author’s viewpoint than soft shoeing it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/444 "2017-09-18T19:29:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Trump said there were “good people” marching with the white supremacists and alt-righters of Charlottesville. He placed blame on “both sides” for violence in Charlottesville instigated by white supremacists that killed an anti-racist protester, and injured several more. He spread a racist and evidence-free conspiracy theory for years, and never apologized for it. He retweeted from white supremacists false statistics about black crime. > > I think that’s reasonably characterized as rhetorical aid and comfort to white supremacists. Well, the march started as support for a Confederate statue. Some of the marchers were there just to support it, and altho I dont like CSA statues, I can’t call everyone that supports them evil or white supremacists. So yeah, some of them were likely “good people”. He is \*kinda \*right. If the white supremacists hadn’t marched- no violence. But if Antifa hadnt arrived to protest their march- also no violence. So the main blame for the violence does have to be laid at the feet of the white supremacists, but there is blame to go around. I dont agree that Birtherism is _necessarily_ racist, as similar lies and conspiracy theories were spread about both Clintons. Birtherism is simply another Rove lie spread by the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/445 "2017-09-18T19:38:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, the march started as support for a Confederate statue. Some of the marchers were there just to support it, and altho I dont like CSA statues, I can’t call everyone that supports them evil or white supremacists. So yeah, some of them were likely “good people”. I don’t think anyone who is willing to march alongside white supremacists who display white supremacist imagery qualifies as “good people”. > [@](#): > > He is \*kinda \*right. If the white supremacists hadn’t marched- no violence. Yes. > [@](#): > > But if Antifa hadnt arrived to protest their march- also no violence. > > So the main blame for the violence does have to be laid at the feet of the white supremacists, but there is blame to go around. Bullshit. The woman killed wasn’t antifa. Many or most of the people injured weren’t antifa. The people surrounded by torch-wielding white supremacsits weren’t antifa. The white supremacists bragged in advance about how they were ready for violence, and then afterwards praised the violence conducted by white supremacists. > [@](#): > > I dont agree that Birtherism is _necessarily_ racist, as similar lies and conspiracy theories were spread about both Clintons. Birtherism is simply another Rove lie spread by the GOP. I don’t think it’s coincidence that the evidence-free conspiracy theory that gained the most traction about the first black president was directly related to his fundamental American-ness. Do you? There were no prominent Clinton conspiracy theories about their births or the legitimacy of their citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/446 "2017-09-18T19:42:39Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I’ve only lurked in this thread because its descent into pedantic parsing has left me without any foothold, but I have to respond to what looks like a relentless pursuit to find fault and offense so you can hand wave the larger point. > > The larger point is that people want to say they are against righting past wrongs. They want to say they are for a more just, more equal society. They want to say they are against white supremacy and its ugly legacy. But when it comes to awarding damages to those most impacted by slavery, these same people flip their shit and start crying unfair and denying that past wrongs translate to present problems. > > You’re faulting Coates for deploying what is common in persuasive essays: the “crime” of stating an opinion without hedging it so that it doesn’t offend people who are guilty of that very thing he’s calling out as a problem. He could’ve just as easily written “Education is not a possible tool against female disempowerment worldwide. It is the indispensable tool against female disempowerment worldwide.” Even if one disagreed with this statement, an open mind would appreciate that such bluntness is more effective in communicating the author’s viewpoint than soft shoeing it. There is a difference between keeping an open mind and not being willing to accept something that one thinks is factually incorrect. In your education example, I would not object to that statement because I think it’s factually correct. In Coates’ case, I don’t think his statement about reparations is factually correct. It’s not about offending anyone, and I am certainly not offended by the idea of reparations-- as I stated, I am in favor of the idea. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/447 "2017-09-19T00:18:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There is a difference between keeping an open mind and not being willing to accept something that one thinks is factually incorrect. In your education example, I would not object to that statement because I think it’s factually correct. In Coates’ case, I don’t think his statement about reparations is factually correct. It’s not about offending anyone, and I am certainly not offended by the idea of reparations-- as I stated, I am in favor of the idea. But by characterizing it as an “you’re ether with us or against” attitude, you communicate more than just disagreement on factual grounds. Rather than seeing his frankness in laying out issues in bare, unhedging terms as a matter of rhetorical style, you take it as license to quibble over semantics and minutiae. In effect, missing the forest for the trees…and passing that off as meaningful debate. That is what people do when they are disinclined to listen in the first place, but rather than cop to that, they seek to police how something is presented. With the present article, you’re doing the same thing. Whether or not Trump is a white supremacist is not the main point he’s making (even though it’s clear that he think he is). His point is that Trump is what happens when white supremacist notions mask people’s ability to see incompetence and disgrace when it’s at its most stark and ugly. In other words, its not “economic insecurity” in the Rust Belt, it’s not conservative whites feeling ignored by the liberal elites, and it’s not because the Democratic Party has marketed itself as the party of brown and black people that gave rise to his win. It’s because of what Trump represents in the eyes of a populace largely programmed to view rich, macho, unrestrained white men as better than everyone else. And yet out of all these pages of threads, it seems the primary thing being argued is whether Coates is asserting that Trump is a card carrying white supremacist. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/448 "2017-09-19T00:34:11Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > With the present article, you’re doing the same thing. Whether or not Trump is a white supremacist is not the main point he’s making (even though it’s clear that he think he is). His point is that Trump is what happens when white supremacist notions mask people’s ability to see incompetence and disgrace when it’s at its most stark and ugly. In other words, its not “economic insecurity” in the Rust Belt, it’s not conservative whites feeling ignored by the liberal elites, and it’s not because the Democratic Party has marketed itself as the party of brown and black people that gave rise to his win. It’s because of what Trump represents in the eyes of a populace largely programmed to view rich, macho, unrestrained white men as better than everyone else. > > And yet out of all these pages of threads, it seems the primary thing being argued is whether Coates is asserting that Trump is a card carrying white supremacist. I think you may have missed the first couple hundred posts of this thread that did discuss these issues, and continues to discuss them. If the thread was merely talking about whether Coates is asserting that Trump is a white supremacist, that would be answered in one since he is obviously doing that. The thread has never moved away from the idea that Coates has simplified the motivations and glossed over all the reasons you lay out, and more, and honed in on white supremacism as the explanation for Trump’s success. Disagreement on these things isn’t semantics and minutiae. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/449 "2017-09-19T01:51:19Z")
Yes, I agree, **Bon** e, more or less. I think Coates was saying that the white supremacist vote put Trump in, and i think that is clearly false. That vote has never voted for anything but GOP Presidents… in recent times anyway. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/450 "2017-09-19T02:01:02Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > But by characterizing it as an “you’re ether with us or against” attitude, you communicate more than just disagreement on factual grounds. Rather than seeing his frankness in laying out issues in bare, unhedging terms as a matter of rhetorical style, you take it as license to quibble over semantics and minutiae. In effect, missing the forest for the trees…and passing that off as meaningful debate. That is what people do when they are disinclined to listen in the first place, but rather than cop to that, they seek to police how something is presented. I disagree. It’s what people do when they not only disagree with the thesis, but with the method of communicating the thesis. I don’t know if that’s what people do when they are “disinclined to listen in the first place”, but it’s what people do when they listen, and disagree. > [@](#): > > With the present article, you’re doing the same thing. Whether or not Trump is a white supremacist is not the main point he’s making (even though it’s clear that he think he is). His point is that Trump is what happens when white supremacist notions mask people’s ability to see incompetence and disgrace when it’s at its most stark and ugly. In other words, its not “economic insecurity” in the Rust Belt, it’s not conservative whites feeling ignored by the liberal elites, and it’s not because the Democratic Party has marketed itself as the party of brown and black people that gave rise to his win. It’s because of what Trump represents in the eyes of a populace largely programmed to view rich, macho, unrestrained white men as better than everyone else. Well, I happen to think he’s wrong. I think it’s overly simplistic to try and distill the many reasons Trump won down to that one issue, and just sweep aside all other possible explanations as being insignificant. You seem to be implying that if someone thinks Coats is wrong, that person must not understand his argument. I understand his argument just fine. > [@](#): > > And yet out of all these pages of threads, it seems the primary thing being argued is whether Coates is asserting that Trump is a card carrying white supremacist. Perhaps you should be lecturing folks like the OP who berated people for not reading the article, and then even just a day ago posted that he wasn’t sure Coates was saying Trump’s ideology was white supremacism. If correcting that factual error is a problem for you, then take issue with the people who post stuff that needs to be corrected, not the people doing the correcting. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/451 "2017-09-19T04:47:36Z")
Why does the \*Atlantic \*publish Coates’s pieces again? Coates is a black nationalist, a monomaniac product of the peculiar culture of the Historically Black Colleges and Universities, for whom subtleties of white American politics are meaningless. Even when his analysis of a given issue is correct, it’s still in the service of his insistence that the USA is utter evil and should also pay him reparations. There’s no path forward in this, no real policy proposal, and seemingly no real understanding of the complexities of electoral politics. This is simplistic racialist twaddle. It is death-glurge. Did Trump win racists that wouldn’t vote for the Mormon Romney? Sure. Did Obama had a massive advantage running in 2008 when everyone was angry at the GOP? Of course. But Trump won largely by unifying Perot voters who wanted an outsider with the GOP. Failing to understand this because there are racists is failing to understand what actually happened. What’s in it for the owners of the\* Atlantic\* to publish this? Distraction, evasion, division? What? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/452 "2017-09-19T05:09:18Z")
Also, the fact that Trump barely won, considering he was basically the unity candidate of reform independents and the existing GOP in the end, should count for something. But no, there are racists, so let’s whinge more about that! It’s not even that he’s wrong! He’s just missing the trees (swing voters in a down economy, Perotism) for the forest (yep, still some bigots out there). ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/453 "2017-09-19T05:15:05Z")
I do, however, appreciate Coates mocking the upscale white people who invoke a “white working class vote” as if that were the real practical base of Trump’s support (it’s not) when so many upper-income whites were the real GOP base, as usual. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/454 "2017-09-19T11:50:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Perhaps you should be lecturing folks like the OP who berated people for not reading the article, and then even just a day ago posted that he wasn’t sure Coates was saying Trump’s ideology was white supremacism. If correcting that factual error is a problem for you, then take issue with the people who post stuff that needs to be corrected, not the people doing the correcting. I’m not the only one in this thread who’s made a factual error, but I’m going to try to step away from this kind of sniping. I think the main theme of Coates’ article is that only in a society with very significant white supremacist elements and influence could Trump possibly be elected. This might seem like a sort of trivial claim – only in a society with a lot of the conditions of 2016, including a weak Democratic candidate, could Trump have been elected, perhaps. But I think Coates harps on this for a good reason – most of the other stuff (decline in manufacturing, weak Democratic candidate, various overblown scandals, etc.) is relatively “normal” in politics and, to some degree, unavoidable (i.e. economic trends and cycles will always have winners and losers). But white supremacism isn’t like that – it’s a system that was deliberately put into place, and deliberately reinforced, over and over again, even as this system has taken great (but not nearly fatal) blows through history. It’s also a much greater and larger-scale immorality and human-engineered tragedy (or atrocity, even) than these other more mundane political occurrences. I think Coates harps on this because he believes, as I do, that this fact escapes many or most Americans, who are relatively comfortable and content with the American system, either not seeing or not caring that white supremacism is still so ingrained, and that there really isn’t any possibility of true equality of opportunity until this system is widely recognized so that it can be dismantled. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/455 "2017-09-19T11:53:12Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Coates is a black nationalist Do you have a cite for this? Is anyone who advocates consideration and dialogue about reparations for various forms of oppression and discrimination a “black nationalist”? > [@](#): > > What’s in it for the owners of the\* Atlantic\* to publish this? Distraction, evasion, division? What? I think it’s because it’s a fascinating topic and Coates is a great writer. It’s certainly created a lot of dialogue and interest, and likely more website hits and issues sold. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/456 "2017-09-19T13:36:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you have a cite for this? Is anyone who advocates consideration and dialogue about reparations for various forms of oppression and discrimination a “black nationalist”? I’d like to see a cite, too. As I understand it, Black Nationalism involves advocating for blacks to self-segregate and form their own communities. Coates argues vociferously in favor of integration, so it’s hard for to understand how that description could apply to him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/457 "2017-09-19T13:56:09Z")
OK, after a bit of Googling, I found [this PDF of a round-table discussion about the death of Black Nationalism](https://www.nypl.org/sites/default/files/events/4.09.09transcript.pdf) in which Coats participated. Gotta run right now, but there might be something in there that proves things one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/458 "2017-09-19T14:59:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, after a bit of Googling, I found [this PDF of a round-table discussion about the death of Black Nationalism](https://www.nypl.org/sites/default/files/events/4.09.09transcript.pdf) in which Coats participated. Gotta run right now, but there might be something in there that proves things one way or the other. Thanks. For reference, this discussion is from '09. Here are some interesting quotes from Coates in it: > [@](#): > > I think I’m the onlyperson here on the panel who actually grew up in a quasi-black nationalist home. I think I’ve got the only African name up here, too, right? Not Victor? Maybe Baz—just checking. I didn’t get the full deal. My dad hated Maulana Karenga, and we didn’t celebrate Kwanzaa, so I’m not the authentic prototype here, but, having said that, I often thought of myself as a kind of lapsed black nationalist, because even though I probably wouldn’t describe myself that way today, it exerts an influence over me that for all of my willpower I simply can’t shake." > [@](#): > > There are all sorts of things that you can pull out of black nationalism, some of them defensible and some of them less so. The thing that always attracted me and has stuck with me, that I can’t shake, is the idea of agency, of, as my dad used to say, doing for self. That’s a line from Garvey, from Malcolm X, even up through hip-hop, up through now. I’m not going to sit here and wait for somebody else to do for me, I can do it myself, and not only that, I can do it in my way, I can walk how I walk, I can talk like I talk, I don’t have to change for you. And so when I saw Barack > Obama giving a handshake like that, he didn’t have to change. It was okay that he played basketball, that was completely fine, that great moment when he goes into Ben’s Chili Bowl and tells the woman, “naw, we straight.” That’s fine, that’s all right, I can do that. Later on he again referred to himself as a “lapsed black nationalist”. So, at least in 2009, Coates didn’t consider himself a black nationalist, but rather a “lapsed” black nationalist. His writing since has been decidedly pro-integration, and very critical of various policies (like ending integration-driven busing) that have been counter to integration. I’ll also point out (if anyone feels differently) that black nationalism and white nationalism are not really comparable; one is a defensive response to the deadly and brutal threat of white supremacism, and one is advocacy for further enshrinement in law of white supremacism. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/459 "2017-09-19T15:18:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the main theme of Coates’ article is that only in a society with very significant white supremacist elements and influence could Trump possibly be elected. What does “very significant” mean in terms of something quantifiable? It’s vague enough that it can mean anything. The election was decided by close to 80K votes total in 3 separate states. But for those votes, the election goes the other way. Suppose that happened, and Clinton won - would that mean that society didn’t have a very significant white supremacist element? With margins that close, any number of things could have tilted the results a different direction. The beauty of that is that it allows advocates of all stripes to claim their issue is the one thing that made a difference. I could claim that Clinton’s stance on guns cost her PA, WI, and MI through a combination of voters staying home that would normally support her, and others coming out to vote against her who other wise wouldn’t. Likewise Trump’s rhetoric on manufacturing and protectionism. It could have been misogyny, Keystone, the TPP, the emails, Benghazi, machismo, or any other number of reasons. But is it really a surprise that Coates hones in on white supremacism? Kind of convenient, no? Coates attacked Sanders for not being serious about fighting against white supremacism. He criticized Obama for distilling the issue down to class and economics, rather than white supremacism. And Trump, according to Coates he is a white supremacist. His writing about the subject is interesting and informative, but he’s also a bit myopic in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725/460 "2017-09-19T15:48:58Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > What does “very significant” mean in terms of something quantifiable? It’s vague enough that it can mean anything. How else can it be quantified, except with terms like this? Polling doesn’t capture unconscious bias, or unconscious influence from white supremacism, or even racism that people just don’t want to admit. > [@](#): > > The election was decided by close to 80K votes total in 3 separate states. But for those votes, the election goes the other way. Suppose that happened, and Clinton won - would that mean that society didn’t have a very significant white supremacist element? With margins that close, any number of things could have tilted the results a different direction. The beauty of that is that it allows advocates of all stripes to claim their issue is the one thing that made a difference. I could claim that Clinton’s stance on guns cost her PA, WI, and MI through a combination of voters staying home that would normally support her, and others coming out to vote against her who other wise wouldn’t. Likewise Trump’s rhetoric on manufacturing and protectionism. It could have been misogyny, Keystone, the TPP, the emails, Benghazi, machismo, or any other number of reasons. I’m sure all of these things contributed, and in the Chris Hayes interview, I’m pretty sure Coates agreed. Had Clinton won by a similarly close margin, I think the article could still be written with very minor changes – white supremacism almost elected Trump, we almost got this dangerous president, etc. I think it’s reasonable and even very positive to focus on this aspect (see below). > [@](#): > > But is it really a surprise that Coates hones in on white supremacism? Kind of convenient, no? Coates attacked Sanders for not being serious about fighting against white supremacism. He criticized Obama for distilling the issue down to class and economics, rather than white supremacism. And Trump, according to Coates he is a white supremacist. His writing about the subject is interesting and informative, but he’s also a bit myopic in this regard. That’s his focus on pretty much everything. He writes about racism and white supremacism and their influence on American culture and society. But I think this is a good thing to focus on. Various economic factors and rhetoric played a role in 2016, but those aren’t terribly immoral evils that are horribly damaging to America. White supremacism is (or at least Coates thinks it is, as I do). We should be focusing on that one factor that’s really, really awful for this country – that it’s significant enough that it can sway a Presidential election is a terrible thing, worth discussing and focusing on. Coates is often criticized for not offering solutions, but when so many people don’t even accept that this is a major problem in society, then we haven’t even gotten past step 1. First, we identify the problem, and try to persuade others that it really is a big problem that we need to address. If this was already done, then we could reasonably move away from the identify/persuade step to the potential solutions step. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-the-first-white-president-article-in-the-atlantic-by-ta-nehisi-coates/795725.md?page=24)