I don’t think the data supports this. In my understanding, poor black people are generally worse off than poor white people (in addition to there being, proportionally, more poor black people than poor white people). In my understanding, schools in poor black areas are worse off than schools in poor white areas, there are less services nearby, etc.
Black poverty is more persistent than white poverty; (from the first cite, from Coates) “poor white families are less likely to live in poor neighborhoods than nonpoor black families”; “even high-income blacks are exposed to greater neighborhood poverty than low-income whites”.
The first wave of Vietnamese immigrants were well-educated and wealthy. This is not unusual in immigration, refugee or otherwise. You’re usually getting the most capable people from the other country, especially when they are fleeing Communism. They established stable communities and small businesses.
As less-privileged Vietnamese people came in subsequent waves, they were both screened by the US government–selecting for people more likely to succeed in the US-- and supported by this community.
More importantly, the US spent HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to assist Vietnamese refugees. The government arranged and subsidized jobs for them, arranged donations of goods, and provided social workers and other benefits.
But the main trick you pull with this argument is to suggest that anti-black racism is equal to anti-Vietnamese sentiment. Quite simply, it isn’t. Not in employer views. Not in unions. Not in housing. Not in the way police treat you. On and on.
OMFG!!! Now the Vietnamese refugees were rich? Are you fucking kidding me? Or are you just saying that there was an occasional rich Vietnamese refugee (I seriously doubt there were more than a handful). Well shit son, there are a shitload of rich blacks right now. Everyone from Colin Kaepernick to Oprah Winfrey, why doesn’t their wealth translate into a more middle class black population?
I don’t think I know any Vietnamese 2nd generation folks whose parents were even middle class, never mind rich, but I agree they might exist.
This brings up an interesting question. Which two groups in the US didn’t immigrate voluntarily (thus having no chance to get “the most capable people” in the “first wave”, along with the other benefits of immigrant communities, such as established communities welcoming and supporting the later waves of immigrants)? Native Americans and black Americans. Which two groups are at the very bottom of so many educational, financial, criminal, and other social indicator statistics? Native Americans and black Americans.
This just sounds like libelous caricature on your part. Unless you have some plan for what African-Americans should be doing without any cooperation from whites of any kind, that would be “agency” by some deeply weird definition.
I’m not saying that racism doesn’t exist or that there racism has no effect but what is keeping those poor blacks from moving into poor white neighborhoods and enjoying all those white school perks? Are we still redlining or not making loans to blacks based on race?
Blacks have been doing that since the 1880’s. Then white supremacists come and burn their economic centers down. The “help” Coates wants from “white liberals” is stopping that from happening. Seriously. It’s not about Marxism, it’s not about left-economics. Coates just wants his people to be compensated for past destruction of economic opportunity, and a system that will try to deter such abuses in the future.
This is in fact why there’s so much bad blood between people like Coates and actual leftists. Coates prioritizes racial debt over class struggle, which suits the likes of Clinton and Obama just fine. The actual Marxists (not that you know what that is) prioritize class struggle and inequality. Leftists see Coates as muddying the water and attacking them while the “centrists” keep the (incidentally white) power structure intact.
I don’t know exactly, but I suspect it’s a combination of many factors, including modern and less formal forms of redlining and segregation. Why don’t black people move to Vidor, TX, which is ~100% white in one of the blackest parts of the country (East TX/SW Louisiana)? That’s a town that I probably drove through about 30 times a year in the late 90s and early 2000s (driving between Baton Rouge/New Orleans and Houston), and almost every time I remember seeing KKK or Neo-Nazi imagery/graffiti in the town. I imagine that kind of culture is part of why black people didn’t move there, and the ones that did left pretty damn quickly.
“Before 1975, most Vietnamese residing in the US were the wives and children of American servicemen or academics. Records[14][15] indicate that a few Vietnamese (including Ho Chi Minh) arrived and performed menial work during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. According to the Immigration and Naturalization Service, 650 Vietnamese arrived as immigrants between 1950 and 1974, but the figure excludes students, diplomats, and military trainees. The April 30, 1975 fall of Saigon, which ended the Vietnam War, prompted the first large-scale wave of immigration;”
I see something about $400 million. Doesn’t really seem like a whole lot. Would you care to guess how much money we spend on black programs?
And of course you can change this with some sort of legislation?
Part of the cultural changes will come from desegregation (which can be related to legislation). If your kids go to school with and become friends with black kids, they’re a lot less likely to have racist ideas about black people.
The rest comes from media and the like, including writing articles describing these sorts of injustices. But neither Coates nor I claims to have all the answers on how to fix this.
Nothing in that cite contradicts my claim. Read the whole page. It completely supports what I said.
Less than that, per capita per year, by any reasonable definition of “black programs” that makes them comparable to the programs offered the Vietnamese. But to be clear, that’s not really the dispositive factor. It has a lot more to do with who immigrated, where they were able to live, and what institutions they were able to establish (with help). The whole Confucian narrative is a crock. Nice short summary here: The Asian American Achievement Paradox | RSF
Maybe. Maybe not. “There is very little truth in the old refrain that one cannot legislate equality. Laws not only provide concrete benefits, they can even change the hearts of men—some men, anyhow—for good or evil.” - Thurgood Marshall.
But that’s not really the point. The point was your spurious claim that somehow black culture is responsible for the astounding gap between average black household wealth and income and that of Vietnamese or Jews. That has nothing to do with legislation.
He *comes *from black nationalism; he was raised in it. He was educated in a historically black university, and they poured much the same stuff in his head as what you just said. Pride, separation, self-sufficiency, self-segregation, blah blah blah. I don’t believe that black separatism is likely to succeed, given my own reading of history; I’ve seen too much in how France treated its former colonies for me actually to expect the “white power” to just let a bunch of “darkies” be. But a lot of people like Coates are steeped in that worldview from babyhood.
And yet you call him a Marxist. Which he is not. Why is that? You attack him when he’s on your side of this argument!
Oh, wait, you don’t want the USA to pay damages for actual acts of violence and oppression, like the burning of Tulsa or the lynchings of Jim Crow. So anyone who thinks that that sort of thing should be corrected for is a “Marxist.”
Remember, kids, “anti-Communism” in the USA is really another word for never having to say you’re sorry to a Negro.
Interesting - you can’t compare blacks to immigrants, because immigrants are “more ambitious”. Another way of putting it is that native-born blacks are less ambitious than immigrants. I wonder if Coates would agree if I put it that way.
You have zero net worth (including no car). Your annual income is 15k. That’s an economic profile consistent with someone at the top of the bottom quarter of all Black Americans.
Assuming you could get a job in a new place with no social connections and you’re willing to face whatever social hostility you might face there, how many majority-white communities can you move to and be able to afford rent and transportation, along with the other basics like food and utilities? I think the answer is: very very few. And, of course, there aren’t a lot of job openings in poor white communities, especially for someone with no social connections.
So I tend to think that the persistence of residential segregation has more to do with the median black household wealth being a few thousand dollars compared to the six figure median for white families, along with wage gaps and historical geographic distributions. Though there’s obviously also some element of private discrimination and the simple inertia that comes from having your family and friends in a place.
[That said, one thing I would not underestimate is the way poorer majority-white schools treat black students. The disciplinary disparities are vast in those schools, often for stuff like tardiness, dress code violations, or “insubordination” (itself often more a product of the school than the child).]