# Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton : why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2015, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102 "2015-12-01T07:13:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/41 "2015-12-01T23:20:35Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Strictly speaking, in order to become a neurosurgeon, you have to : > > 1. Get into college and pass a fairly difficult set of required premed courses with an A or B. Organic Chemistry being the toughest. > 2. Have an overall GPA from college of about 3.6 to 4.0, although the year you apply to medical school matters as the competition alternates in difficulty. > 3. Do well on a competitively ranked national exam called the MCATs. You don’t “pass” this exam : the score is statistical. The exam tests both knowledge of basic science, verbal ability, and to an extent, _intelligence_. This is because each section is timed and the time is short enough that most people have trouble finishing all of the mental tasks needed to solve each question within the time constraints. (none of the MCAT questions are particularly difficult, there’s a trick usually and they only require basic knowledge of the subjects covered to answer them - kind of like IQ test questions.) > > To get into med school you need a score in the top 30% or so of everyone who takes it. Higher is better. > 4. Get into medical school, where #1-3 will be scrutinized carefully > 5. Do well in medical school, both with excellent grades during the academic portion and excellent marks when other doctors evaluate you. > 6. Pass \*another \*difficult exam, called the USMLE Step 1, with a score that is statistically better than other medical students (like top 30% _again_) > 7. Pass through a second winnowing process where your med school grades, step scores, and all kinds of recommendations get you that slot to train as a neurosurgeon > > So, yes, his intelligence was carefully tested. Or was it. To be quite frank, he is a black man. During the era he trained, he may have benefited from affirmative action. Or, there was an era before affirmative action where blacks were actually had to do \*better \*than whites to, say, become a physician and a neurosurgeon. I don’t know which it was. > > With all that said, all this is a series of institutional tests. You can obviously pass em all and still believe the earth is 6k years old, that god tells your preacher what to do, and that evolution is wrong. I’m cheerfully prepared to admit that Carson is intelligent and has advanced skill in a particular and highly challenging field, but what good is it if he’s compelled to make very bad decisions? It would be nice to hear his opinions if he could totally step away from the pandering role the pre-primaries force on a candidate these days. If after he leaves the race, if he _still_ says that he believes in creationism or biblical literalism then, sadly and frankly, fuck 'im. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/42 "2015-12-01T23:29:00Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Strictly speaking, in order to become a neurosurgeon, you have to : > > 1. Get into college and pass a fairly difficult set of required premed courses with an A or B. Organic Chemistry being the toughest. > 2. Have an overall GPA from college of about 3.6 to 4.0, although the year you apply to medical school matters as the competition alternates in difficulty. > 3. Do well on a competitively ranked national exam called the MCATs. You don’t “pass” this exam : the score is statistical. The exam tests both knowledge of basic science, verbal ability, and to an extent, _intelligence_. This is because each section is timed and the time is short enough that most people have trouble finishing all of the mental tasks needed to solve each question within the time constraints. (none of the MCAT questions are particularly difficult, there’s a trick usually and they only require basic knowledge of the subjects covered to answer them - kind of like IQ test questions.) > > To get into med school you need a score in the top 30% or so of everyone who takes it. Higher is better. > 4. Get into medical school, where #1-3 will be scrutinized carefully > 5. Do well in medical school, both with excellent grades during the academic portion and excellent marks when other doctors evaluate you. > 6. Pass \*another \*difficult exam, called the USMLE Step 1, with a score that is statistically better than other medical students (like top 30% _again_) > 7. Pass through a second winnowing process where your med school grades, step scores, and all kinds of recommendations get you that slot to train as a neurosurgeon > > So, yes, his intelligence was carefully tested. Or was it. To be quite frank, he is a black man. During the era he trained, he may have benefited from affirmative action. Or, there was an era before affirmative action where blacks were actually had to do \*better \*than whites to, say, become a physician and a neurosurgeon. I don’t know which it was. > > With all that said, all this is a series of institutional tests. You can obviously pass em all and still believe the earth is 6k years old, that god tells your preacher what to do, and that evolution is wrong. Carson might be very intelligent in medicine, but he’s an absolute idiot on most topics related to politics and non-medical science if he really believes what he says. It’s entirely possible to be brilliant in one subject and a moron in others. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/43 "2015-12-02T00:02:15Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > And she has strikes against her, even if you ignore the stuff that hits the press. \*\*She’s an old lady. Hillary cheated on her. \*\* Both of those things, assuming you meant Bill, are pretty sexist. The vast majority of people in power and running for president are old men. So what? And it doesn’t matter if Bill cheated on her. The dynamics of a marriage hardly applies to running a country. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/44 "2015-12-02T00:08:31Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Both of those things, assuming you meant Bill, are pretty sexist. > > The vast majority of people in power and running for president are old men. So what? > > And it doesn’t matter if Bill cheated on her. The dynamics of a marriage hardly applies to running a country. In this case, my problem here is that I feel that democrats represent my personal interests slightly better than Republicans. (they are both bad, but the current Republican party is worse as it revels in deliberate ignorance and gives the appearance of being a hired mouthpiece for certain industries) I don’t personally care that she’s an “old, unattractive woman”. I understand that this is irrelevant to how well she can represent my interests. I care because I know other voters will subconsciously hold this against her, and a younger, better looking Republican candidate will get votes from “on the fence independents” simply _because_ of this. I’m sure Obama collected a chunk of votes simply because he’s a relatively good looking, active, healthy appearing man compared to McCain. So, if they could find a younger Democrat - another Obama-like as it were - I feel the chances of the Democrats retaining the white house would be better. Alas, it’s far too late for that. The board has been set and all the important pieces on it are there, and it’s something like 90% Hillary 10% Sanders in terms of who might get the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/45 "2015-12-02T01:39:09Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Stop lying? > > Or is that too much to ask? Yes. And it wouldn’t be a good idea if you got it: > **[Of course presidents lie | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2013/11/24/politics/presidents-lie/)** > > You want the truth? You can’t handle the truth. We say we want a president to be honest but many of our greatest presidents were our biggest liars, scholars say. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/46 "2015-12-02T03:00:43Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > What “qualifies” a person to be President? I’ll add “lawyer”. The Constitution is a legal document, and that is just the beginning of the legal language that goes with high office. Knowing one’s way around the law seems, to me, indispensable for the practical running of an administration. I like it that Obama was a law professor. I liked it that Bill Clinton was a lawyer. Reagan was not a lawyer, but an actor, and IMHO he was a fairly crappy president when you really examine the details. Hillary is a lawyer, on top of the rest of her resume. Which of her opponents can say the same? Trump certainly can’t buy that kind of insight (though he can of course buy plenty of lawyers…). I agree that other kinds of experience also count, things like overseeing the invasion of Europe on D-Day. Sure. Secretary of State is great- their peers are literally the world’s leaders. Yes, the Secretary is working for a president among world leaders, but at that point the presidency is pretty much a promotion. I still think **Habeed** raises some good points. Hillary doesn’t seem likely to be a remarkable president if she wins, but then again, who knows? Maybe she’d go for the freakin’ jugular on a range of smart ideas. I also think we ought to spend more time weighing Sanders’ merit. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/47 "2015-12-02T04:16:23Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I’ll add “lawyer”… > > Hillary doesn’t seem likely to be a remarkable president if she wins, but then again, who knows? Maybe she’d go for the freakin’ jugular on a range of smart ideas. Hillary is a top-notch lawyer, but I’m afraid Cruz and Rubio are also. I’m also afraid that in today’s America no President will be “remarkable” in the sense of being an inspiring and unifiying leader. If Hillary acts aggressively against Daesh the Republicans will shriek that she should be more cautious. And vice versa. 40% of Americans will detest a Democratic President no matter who he/she is. The better the President’s legislative ideas, the more the opposition will seek to scuttle them. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/48 "2015-12-02T08:42:01Z")
I don’t understand how people would say Clinton is “unqualified”. Without even discussing honesty or policy (which are different to “qualified”) her resume is about as good as you are ever going to get for someone running for President and far far outguns anything being offered from the other side. It’s pretty widely acknowledged that she was a powerful first lady, that prior to that she was a successful lawyer, active senator, and then secretary of state - which could be compared to “President Understudy” in many ways. If she doesn’t have the resume to become president then I would really have to wonder what sort of a metric is being used to judge her. - The converse is that you may well argue that she is too divisive, or not inspirational or whatever other soft skill you may want to come up with - but that’s a totally different argument than the power of her resume ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/49 "2015-12-02T08:48:18Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Donald Trump had a wealthy father, but plenty of people have wealthy parents and don’t become household names. He completed many complicated building projects. And now gets paid millions of dollars for people to use his name because of how well he has built up the brand. That may not be qualifications to be president but it is very impressive and speaks to his intelligence, drive, hard work, and media savvy. He’s certainly got moxie. But he’s also, without a doubt a stupid liar. > [@](#): > > Making crazy campaign promises is the way to get elected. The last guy who won promised to heal the planet. That’s not the case. Trump is childish. A vapid brat. And can you cite where Obama promised to heal the planet? > [@](#): > > Ben Carson does not strike me as angry at all. He is mild mannered and never seems to lose his cool. Except for when he whined to a group of reporters that he was being treated unfairly. > [@](#): > > He overcome a horrible upbringing to become one of the best in the world at a very difficult profession. He is probably one of the most intelligent people to ever run for president since Herbert Hoover. He has the drive and focus to pass O-chem and get really good at something. He’s not smart at all. He’s a delusional fool who is good at exactly one thing in the universe. Cutting on brains. > [@](#): > > Saying he has no understanding of the scientific method or rational thought is either willful delusion or crazy hyperbole. No. He thinks humans and dinosaurs co-existed. He thinks that evolution, the single unifying fact of every single biological science, is not real. I wouldn’t let that simpering twat water my plants while I was on vacation. I certainly don’t think his end-of-days-awaiting ass needs access to nuclear launch codes. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/50 "2015-12-02T09:45:33Z")
He thinks the pyramids were to store rice/grains! And he just got back from a Syrian refugee camp and announced we’re all making a mountain out of a molehill, the camps are quite nice, and those in them are just biding their time and waiting to return to Syria! One wonders what colour the sky is in his world! ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/51 "2015-12-02T10:04:54Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > He thinks the pyramids were to store rice/grains! > > And he just got back from a Syrian refugee camp and announced we’re all making a mountain out of a molehill, the camps are quite nice, and those in them are just biding their time and waiting to return to Syria! > > One wonders what colour the sky is in his world! Got a quote for that? I mean, putting your foot in your mouth about Vaccines is one thing. Maybe as a neurosurgeon he saw patients with brain disorders that seemed to develop right after vaccination, or he heard it as a story from his colleagues. Wrong but understandable. And being skeptical about climate change isn’t totally off base since the rate of warming is really slow - they are talking about 3 degrees being a planet wide catastrophe, but also that it won’t actually warm that much until 2100 or so. It’s not something you can stick your head outside and just see for yourself, sometimes we get cold snaps, and a 3 degree temperature rise worldwide doesn’t actually sound that bad on the face of it. (yes, yes, don’t correct me, I know it is predicted to be an utter catastrophe) But believing the pyramids were for storing grain…umm. Like, does he even understand the concept of needing information before opening his mouth? Isn’t there basically no internal room in those pyramids, it’s almost all solid stone… ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/52 "2015-12-02T10:07:09Z")
I think its pretty fair to say that Hilary would have a successful political career even if she didn’t get lucky / unlucky enough to choose as her husband someone that was elected President. She was involved in politics a long while before she started dating Clinton. If anything being ex-first lady has hurt her political career, the years she was first lady and officially out of politics were otherwise prime years of her political career. Putting her in the same box as Trump just seems totally bizarre to me. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/53 "2015-12-02T10:17:54Z")
Sorry, I’m really bad with the link thing. But a simple Google search will give you exactly the quotes you seek. Oh, and he also thinks the pyramids were built by the biblical Joseph! Where did this guy get his degree? How embarrassed must they be? ---
**Author:** ![phreak9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/45deac/32.png) [@phreak9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreak9)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/54 "2015-12-02T10:44:56Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > So, alright, I’m going to try to be as neutral and fair-minded as possible about the flaws I see in each candidate. > > Donald Trump - Yes, he was sorta successful in business. Note the ‘sorta’. He started out with one of the wealthiest men in America as his patron and a “mere” million dollar loan. A massive part of his wealth is he basically is wealthy for being wealthy, kind of how Paris Hilton is famous for being. He just sells his name, synonymous with “rich” and “exclusive” and gets money for achieving nothing. Articles criticizing his business success also point out that many of those real estate deals that made his fortune depended heavily on his connections. > > And he’s a “know nothing” blowhard. He keeps making campaign “promise” after promise that in no possible world could he ever meet. Prevent 9/11? Peace in the middle east? Make ISIS go away like a pimple? Stop the illegals from crossing the border? Dream on, buddy. > > Ben Carson, the other possible - this guy is an angry black man. I’m not being racist - he in so many worlds tells people this, to the point of insisting it is true even when the press can’t find the people he claims to have harmed. His second strike is that despite his training as a neurosurgeon, he seems to lack even basic understanding of rational thought or the scientific method. Not everything thought to be true today actually is true, but part of rational thought is you aren’t supposed to spout off “doubting” clearly experimentally proven claims unless you have data. Like his vaccine claim. This casts doubt on the man’s ability to make competent decisions, if he doesn’t even agree with objective reality. > > Hillary Clinton - Ok, so what precisely has Hillary actually done herself, personally, to justify awarding her the most powerful position in the United States, if not the world? Maybe Benghazi wasn’t her fault and the email scandals are just hot air. But what has she done on a positive note? > > And she has strikes against her, even if you ignore the stuff that hits the press. She’s an old lady. Hillary cheated on her. > > Out of 350 million people, is this the best we can actually find? I posit that I could walk up and down my very block and find someone (excluding myself in this search) better than either candidate for president. the FCT we have 2 parties for 350 million people is in itself a giant joke. coke or pepsi? god (righteousness) or jesus (caring about the welfare of others? anywho. me and a friend had a 2 hour text session about taxes and the deficit this morning and myself i can only vote for Bernie or Rand Paul. They are the only real candidates. anyone who cant comprehend climate change at this point should just watch the Packers Bears thanksgiving game and notice the rain when its supposed to be snow and really think for a minute and if you still dont get it just assume youre a total retard and nothing less. anywho im drinking. so me and my mostly conservative friend came to the conclusion that as far as deficit goes Bill was the only president in the last 35 years to even come close to balancing the budget and hillary would have Bill and at her back. Trump is a moron who will end up like Bachmann and Palin. he is getting the under and uneducated voters and as we have seen in years past those people with those voters never last for the long haul. I cant vote for anyone besides Bernie or Rand but Hillary would be funny because fox and the right have been character assassinating her since 1999 and they need to see their assaults dont work. i remember trying to be a conservative and the one day i try to trust fox news they choose to show hillary yelling at some lady OVER AND OVER AGAIN ALL DAY instead of a plane crash that was one of the BIGGEST STORIES OF THE YEAR!! fox news is a joke. so is limbaugh and hannity and anyone that disagrees should learn to use youtube and fact checking. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/55 "2015-12-02T12:13:12Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Hillary is a top-notch lawyer, but I’m afraid Cruz and Rubio are also. I’m afraid that amounts to a qualification for Rubio and Cruz. But fear not! I won’t support those guys, see below. > [@](#): > > I’m also afraid that in today’s America no President will be “remarkable” in the sense of being an inspiring and unifiying leader. If Hillary acts aggressively against Daesh the Republicans will shriek that she should be more cautious. And vice versa. 40% of Americans will detest a Democratic President no matter who he/she is. The better the President’s legislative ideas, the more the opposition will seek to scuttle them. Sure. But let’s look at what is really going on. Here is a very good article about how Illinois politics have largely been bought. I recommend the whole thing, but my point is from the chart at the bottom, comparing the 1%‘s values to Americans’ at large: > [@](#): > > Where merely affluent Americans are more likely to identify as Democrats than as Republicans, the ultrawealthy overwhelmingly leaned right. They are far more likely to raise money for politicians and to have access to them; nearly half had personally contacted one of Illinois’s two United States senators. > > Where the general public overwhelmingly supports a high minimum wage, the one percent are broadly opposed. A majority of Americans supported expanding safety-net and retirement programs, while most of the very wealthy opposed them. And while Americans are not enthusiastic about higher taxes generally, they feel strongly that the rich should pay more than they do, and more than everyone else pays. Bought politicians represent the values of the very wealthy, which very much does not represent the values of Americans at large. So we uncover the qualification that every GOP candidate is missing this year: the will and ability to actually represent the American people. Can Hillary do that? The answer IMHO is “maybe”. For Sanders, I believe it is “yes”. For any GOP candidate you care to name, the answer is a resounding “no”. So of course they will fight tooth and nail if a Democrat wins and tries to advance an agenda that actually benefits the American people- they don’t represent the American people. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/56 "2015-12-02T13:54:18Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Got a quote for that? I mean, putting your foot in your mouth about Vaccines is one thing. Maybe as a neurosurgeon he saw patients with brain disorders that seemed to develop right after vaccination, or he heard it as a story from his colleagues. Wrong but understandable. Maybe as a neurosurgeon he should understand that this is not how science works, and is therefore in no way understandable. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/57 "2015-12-02T14:08:02Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Out of 350 million people, is this the best we can actually find? I posit that I could walk up and down my very block and find someone (excluding myself in this search) better than either candidate for president. You’d hope so given it’s one of the highest political offices in the world and one of them isn’t a politician. I wouldn’t want Trump plumbing my sink or servicing my car either. He’s basically King Ralph, an uncouth clown commanding as much respect on the world stage as Piers Morgan. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/58 "2015-12-02T14:41:24Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Hillary is a top-notch lawyer, but I’m afraid Cruz and Rubio are also. What are you basing that on? Rubio has been in elected office for all but two years since he was admitted to the bar, and neither his official biography nor his Wikipedia page mention what he was doing in those two years. Clinton practiced law at least part time from 1974 until the 1992 presidential campaign, and Cruz was certainly a very accomplished lawyer (though mostly in public service roles). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/59 "2015-12-02T15:27:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What are you basing that on? Rubio has been in elected office for all but two years since he was admitted to the bar, and neither his official biography nor his Wikipedia page mention what he was doing in those two years. What was I basing the claim on? Ignorance, I guess. I did see that his J.D. degree was “cum laude” but perhaps that’s faint praise when there’s no “magna” or “summa” prepended. (And is it odd that we don’t know what he was doing those two years?) I guess I just assumed that since the only clearcut bullets on his resume were that he was a political hack and a blatant liar (e.g. changing the date of his parents’ arrival in U.S. to comply with an anti-Castro fantasy) that he had to have _some_ area of serious competence. So if he’s not a top-notch lawyer, and has no other qualifications but boyish good looks, political hackery, and compulsive lying, why is he now 2nd-most-likely to be the next President of the Unitest States and Leader of the Free World? _ **Frightening.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/60 "2015-12-02T15:31:05Z")
He’s a very good politician. He rose from a city commission job to national office in a decade. But no, graduating from law school _cum laude_ (or even magna or summa) doesn’t really say anything about how good a lawyer you are. It says you’re probably pretty smart, but I know _magna_ graduates who failed the bar exam (not that the bar exam is a very good indicator of a good lawyer either). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102.md?page=4)