# Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton : why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2015, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102 "2015-12-01T07:13:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/61 "2015-12-02T16:53:49Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Sorry, I’m really bad with the link thing. But a simple Google search will give you exactly the quotes you seek. > > Oh, and he also thinks the pyramids were built by the biblical Joseph! > > Where did this guy get his degree? How embarrassed must they be? Yale under grad and University of Michigan for medical school. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/62 "2015-12-02T17:45:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > One must hope it’s an act, calculated to attract the modern GOP electorate. Even _ **I** _ don’t believe the mass of voters are that dumb. Wouldn’t it be amusing if there was a mutual race to zero through misunderstanding, with GOP politicians affirming ever more deluded beliefs in the mistaken insight that that is what the people want, and the people continually remoulding their own world-view to the stupidities because that’s what important GOP politicians tell them ? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/63 "2015-12-02T19:26:59Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > He had a wealthy father who handed him a New York City real estate empire and he made some additional money in (surprise!) New York City real esteate; by many analyses, had he cashed out that inheritance and simply put it into an index fund he would be worth much, much more money today. > > In other words, he is not a good businessman in any way. His brother and sister had the same father and neither of them is a household name, his brother is not even alive anymore. Plenty of people have had richer fathers and made nothing of themselves. As far as putting the money in an index fund, it ignores consumption. How much money do you think he spends a year on himself and his family? It is probably in the million of dollars. In order to get the index fund growth he would have had reinvest all of the proceeds and not consumed the millions of dollars worth of consumption he has paid for. Most of the articles about him underperforming the market start the timing in 1982 when he first appeared on the Forbes list of richest people and not in the early 70s when he received money from his father to start his business. If you figure his returns from when he first went in business he has outpeformed the market, but if you figure his returns from right before the stock market boomed then he has not. But almost no one has the ability to time markets like that. So much of that analysis depends on when you start the index fund. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/64 "2015-12-02T19:37:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Carson might be very intelligent in medicine, but he’s an absolute idiot on most topics related to politics and non-medical science if he really believes what he says. It’s entirely possible to be brilliant in one subject and a moron in others. Carson is one of the world’s foremost experts in pediatric neurosurgeon, a field so complicated you have to have an intelligence at a genius level to do at all. Outside of his specialty he is relatively ignorant and doesn’t know that much. You who else that applies to? Everyone in the world. I am sure I know more than Neil De Grasse Tyson about the rock group the Monkees, and the Dallas Cowboys. That does not make him an idiot or me smarter than him. He is a smart person and if he applied himself I am sure he could become an expert relatively quickly. Likewise, Carson is a very smart person and if he applied himself he could probably become an expert on the pyramids or the age of the earth if he wanted to. However, he is not running for chief Egyptologist so there is no reason for him to have accurate beliefs about the Pyramids. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/65 "2015-12-02T19:38:27Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Sorry, I’m really bad with the link thing. But a simple Google search will give you exactly the quotes you seek. > > Oh, and he also thinks the pyramids were built by the biblical Joseph! > > Where did this guy get his degree? How embarrassed must they be? Oh the irony of someone who can’t figure out a link button calling the world’s foremost pediatric brain surgeon embarrassing. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/66 "2015-12-02T19:58:40Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > … Outside of his specialty he is relatively ignorant and doesn’t know that much. You who else that applies to? Everyone in the world. I am sure I know more than Neil De Grasse Tyson about the rock group the Monkees, and the Dallas Cowboys. That does not make him an idiot … > However, he is not running for chief Egyptologist so there is no reason for him to have accurate beliefs about the Pyramids. I know that I know nothing about the Monkees nor the Cowboys. I’ve no idea what Hillary knows about the Pyramids, but she does probably know whether she knows it or not! Even Donald Rumsfeld knew there were things he didn’t know! 😉 [But some people don’t even know how ignorant they are.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) I don’t find that as confidence-inspiring as you seem to. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/67 "2015-12-02T20:04:27Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Carson is one of the world’s foremost experts in pediatric neurosurgeon, a field so complicated you have to have an intelligence at a genius level to do at all. There is zero reason to believe this is true. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/68 "2015-12-02T20:06:10Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > …Carson is a very smart person and if he applied himself he could probably become an expert on the pyramids or the age of the earth if he wanted to. > However, he is not running for chief Egyptologist so there is no reason for him to have accurate beliefs about the Pyramids. Carson has been running for POTUS since at least November 2014, when he re-registered as a Republican in anticipation of his campaign. Given the breadth of stupid things he’s said about foreign policy he either isn’t applying himself or isn’t as quick a study as he ought to be. In any event, you don’t need to be “chief Egyptologist” to know that the pyramids are not grain silos, any more than you need to be a marine biologist to know that squid don’t really find Japanese teenagers attractive. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/69 "2015-12-02T20:11:25Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Only if the GOP agrees to do the same. > > Is that too much to ask? I don’t like the GOP anymore than I like Hillary. How about we, the voters, stop supporting proven liars. How about we actually look at a candidates _actions_ instead of listening to pointless soundbites that don’t have shit to do with what the candidate is going to do if elected? But that’ll never happen. It will never happen because everyone is more concerned with appearing to support the right things than actually doing the right things. So candidates can lie endlessly and, as long as the lies convince just enough people, there is absolutely no blow back for lying. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/70 "2015-12-02T20:20:05Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > His brother and sister had the same father and neither of them is a household name, his brother is not even alive anymore. Plenty of people have had richer fathers and made nothing of themselves. > As far as putting the money in an index fund, it ignores consumption. How much money do you think he spends a year on himself and his family? It is probably in the million of dollars. In order to get the index fund growth he would have had reinvest all of the proceeds and not consumed the millions of dollars worth of consumption he has paid for. > Most of the articles about him underperforming the market start the timing in 1982 when he first appeared on the Forbes list of richest people and not in the early 70s when he received money from his father to start his business. If you figure his returns from when he first went in business he has outpeformed the market, but if you figure his returns from right before the stock market boomed then he has not. But almost no one has the ability to time markets like that. So much of that analysis depends on when you start the index fund. Nomatter what analysis you do, it will never be impressive to inherit a few hundred million dollars and an entire empire in an industry from your daddy, and then use that extreme nepotism to either barely beat (or most likely) barely lose to index funds. Paris Hilton is not impressive either. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/71 "2015-12-02T20:30:21Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Oh the irony of someone who can’t figure out a link button calling the world’s foremost pediatric brain surgeon embarrassing. Carson went to med school, was exposed to a basic biological education, and thinks people rode dinosaurs. He’s a fucking twat. Also, he’s _one of the country’s top neurosurgeons_. Where is he listed as the _world’s top?_ [And he himself said that what makes him good is his 3d spatial sense and dexterity.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Carson#cite_note-PennState-26) Certainly it’s not the part of his mind that is capable of reasoning, or questioning things he’d prefer to believe in. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/72 "2015-12-02T20:36:42Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > His brother and sister had the same father and neither of them is a household name, his brother is not even alive anymore. Plenty of people have had richer fathers and made nothing of themselves. > As far as putting the money in an index fund, it ignores consumption. How much money do you think he spends a year on himself and his family? It is probably in the million of dollars. In order to get the index fund growth he would have had reinvest all of the proceeds and not consumed the millions of dollars worth of consumption he has paid for. You’re missing the point. He’d have more money if he did nothing but plop it in a fund. He could have then worked to achieve something in business on his own merit. He’d still have a huge advantage owning to his family contacts and education, but he could have worked up a personal fortune that would actually be admirable, instead coasting along playing business man, and spending his twilight years being a buffoon on the teevee. He was born with a platinum spoon. Wow, he’s still rich after all these years, color me moderately impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/73 "2015-12-02T20:37:06Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Nomatter what analysis you do, it will never be impressive to inherit a few hundred million dollars and an entire empire in an industry from your daddy, and then use that extreme nepotism to either barely beat (or most likely) barely lose to index funds. > > Paris Hilton is not impressive either. How many times is this going to have to be debunked? Trump’s success is not the result of inheriting hundreds of millions nor from being given his father’s empire. He started with a million dollar loan and went in a completely different direction than his father. He was at one point given management of his father’s company but its wealth and assets remained with his father. By the time he inherited hundreds of millions after his fathers death he had already become famous, written _The Art of the Deal_, lost and rebuilt his previous multi-billion dollar fortune. His father’s money at that point was icing on the cake. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/74 "2015-12-02T20:37:27Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > I don’t like the GOP anymore than I like Hillary. > How about we, the voters, stop supporting proven liars. How about we actually look at a candidates _actions_ instead of listening to pointless soundbites that don’t have shit to do with what the candidate is going to do if elected? That’s the part I keep asking about Hillary. Ok, so she checks every box. She’s as well qualified for the job of president as about anyone who has ever made it. I will just accept this as a given. But what positive thing have her actions accomplished? All we ever hear about are things that didn’t go well. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/75 "2015-12-02T20:41:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > … He started with a million dollar loan… Oh, is that all. :rolleyes: No, actually it isn’t. He had his father’s contacts, a total safety-net, the correct education, and no need to actually work for a living while creating his empire. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/76 "2015-12-02T20:42:52Z")
She co-sponsored 79 bills while in the Senate, including the Lily Ledbetter Act. As _[Foreign Affairs](https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/united-states/2013-04-03/clinton-legacy)_ (hardly a US-coddling publication) notes, Clinton’s SecState accomplishments were largely behind the scenes any many didn’t or won’t bear fruit until long after her tenure (such as the groundwork for the Iran deal, which is one of the three or four signature foreign policy accomplishments of any administration in the past quarter-century). ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/77 "2015-12-02T20:57:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > How many times is this going to have to be debunked? Once. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > How many times is this going to have to be debunked? Trump’s success is not the result of inheriting hundreds of millions nor from being given his father’s empire. He started with a million dollar loan and went in a completely different direction than his father. He was at one point given management of his father’s company but its wealth and assets remained with his father. By the time he inherited hundreds of millions after his fathers death he had already become famous, written _The Art of the Deal_, lost and rebuilt his previous multi-billion dollar fortune. His father’s money at that point was icing on the cake. “A totally different direction” Yup. He made his money in New York City real estate. A totally different direction from his father’s many hundreds of million dollar empire, which was in, wait let me look it up, New York City real estate. Totally different direction. Listen, if he had simply taken one million dollars from his dad and opened a line of pet stores in California or hamburger chains in the southwest, I would say bravo to turning that into the 3-4 billion he has today. But that ain’t what happened. Turning a one million dollar investment plus your daddy’s connections plus an infusion of your daddy’s 300-400 million dollar empire plus forty years into 3-4 billion is not impressive. Not squandering hundreds of millions of dollars that are handed to you does not make you a good businessman. Plus, he did squander it by going bankrupt a few times, and it’s only his name “Trump” that his daddy gave him when he handed him the keys to the Trump Organization (named for Fred, not Donald), that got him out of that. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/78 "2015-12-02T21:01:45Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > . . . the world’s foremost pediatric brain surgeon . . . Care to back up that claim with facts? “World’s Foremost?” Bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/79 "2015-12-02T21:12:57Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Care to back up that claim with facts? “World’s Foremost?” Bullshit. [First to separate conjoined twins( at the head)](http://www.bustle.com/articles/103079-who-are-the-conjoined-twins-ben-carson-separated-patrick-benjamin-binder-were-seven-months-old). That’s something. > [@](#): > > His previous career spanned decades, however, and his contributions to the field of pediatric neurosurgery are still being felt today. They include the implementation of such pioneering techniques as imaging technology that allows doctors to practice their surgeries as well as the separation of twins conjoined at the head. > > There was incredible risk to performing the operation, as the twins shared a critical vein in their brains: the sagittal superior sinus, which drains blood from the brain as well as cerebrospinal fluid. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102/80 "2015-12-02T21:14:37Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Carson is one of the world’s foremost experts in pediatric neurosurgeon, a field so complicated you have to have an intelligence at a genius level to do at all. Outside of his specialty he is relatively ignorant and doesn’t know that much. You who else that applies to? Everyone in the world. I am sure I know more than Neil De Grasse Tyson about the rock group the Monkees, and the Dallas Cowboys. That does not make him an idiot or me smarter than him. However, Neil DeGrasse Tyson is probably smart enough to realize, “Hmm, maybe I shouldn’t just make shit up about the Monkees on public television”. And then later to stand to those statements after being corrected. I’m perfectly willing to grant that Carson is a great neurosurgeon. But given his performance thus far, I think it’s far more likely that a bit of a dolt found a talent he was really good at and work and worked and worked to make the most of it than that he’s somehow secretly a genius and just happens to know nothing about anything else. See, one of the biggest things about being smart? You get to realizing when you’re in out of your depth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-vs-hillary-clinton-why/739102.md?page=5)