# Donald Trump's 2016 General Election Campaign **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901 "2016-05-04T02:37:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 142
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2823 "2016-07-21T13:59:46Z")
Donald Trump is the best Christian. Absolutely the best. Why he doesn’t even have anything to ask forgiveness for! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2824 "2016-07-21T14:07:22Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > …And here we are. “Christ, what an imagination I’ve got!” Fuckin’ yonderboys! ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2825 "2016-07-21T14:10:03Z")
Donald Trump, makes you feel He’s a cool exec with a heart of steel As ORANGE MAN, all debts ablaze He’s cheating and tweeting in repulsive ways! Amazing poser! That’s Orange Man! Insane combover! That’s O-RANGE MAN! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2826 "2016-07-21T14:18:05Z")
Home, home on derange… ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2827 "2016-07-21T14:27:36Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > If Russia invades the Baltic states, Donald [isn’t sure](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/donald-trump-issues.html?_r=0) whether the whole NATO thing should matter. He’d have to check his ledgers first to see if they’ve given us enough stuff: Which is pretty much the opposite of what Pence said in his speech. The two of them are obviously not in sync. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2828 "2016-07-21T14:34:34Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > Which is pretty much the opposite of what Pence said in his speech. > The two of them are obviously not in sync. And Trump got rejected for a first kiss. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2829 "2016-07-21T14:39:27Z")
OK, so Trump’s kids are also orange. Makes sense, House Trump is the house of orange. You know who else has a House of Orange, ruliing with an iron fist? _The Dutch!_ Connect the dot, people! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2830 "2016-07-21T14:44:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > OK, so Trump’s kids are also orange. Makes sense, House Trump is the house of orange. You know who else has a House of Orange, ruliing with an iron fist? > > _The Dutch!_ > > Connect the dot, people! From your tulips to our ears. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2831 "2016-07-21T18:20:39Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Let’s see, now: > > Obligation #1: write a big, fat, check to the Donald J. Trump Foundation > > Obligation #2: buy some Tim Tebow sports memorabilia This one doesn’t work me up. What Trump said just doesn’t sound that outrageous to me. If countries agree to certain obligations, and they don’t meet them, then we either need to revisit the obligations or hold them accountable. If I don’t pay my insurance bill, I don’t get reimbursed when my car is totaled. Now, I understand that global politics is more complicated than that, and I wouldn’t trust Trump in a million years with the job, but holding countries to their agreed upon obligations doesn’t sound that crazy to me. I mean, if we announce that they don’t need to honor their agreements up front, wouldn’t it be in their best interests not to? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2832 "2016-07-21T18:27:09Z")
I don’t know if you can say “it’s OK we lost \ because they owed us $48 million” and stay the good guys. When you act the rich uncle, sometimes the kids develop sloppy habits, thinking Sam will bail them out, yes… but the rational response in your scenario is not to just let them up and get murdered, right? ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2833 "2016-07-21T18:33:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I don’t know if you can say “it’s OK we lost \ because they owed us $48 million” and stay the good guys. When you act the rich uncle, sometimes the kids develop sloppy habits, thinking Sam will bail them out, yes… but the rational response in your scenario is not to just let them up and get murdered, right? That’s the rational response for some who’s concerned about the well-being of his entire family, sure. But for someone who’s concerned only about himself, each murdered kid equals one fewer mouth to feed and a lower college tuition bill next fall. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2834 "2016-07-21T18:34:53Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I don’t know if you can say “it’s OK we lost \ because they owed us $48 million” and stay the good guys. When you act the rich uncle, sometimes the kids develop sloppy habits, thinking Sam will bail them out, yes… but the rational response in your scenario is not to just let them up and get murdered, right? If you start throwing small countries to the wolves, it just encourages the wolves… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2835 "2016-07-21T18:36:53Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > This one doesn’t work me up. What Trump said just doesn’t sound that outrageous to me. If countries agree to certain obligations, and they don’t meet them, then we either need to revisit the obligations or hold them accountable. If I don’t pay my insurance bill, I don’t get reimbursed when my car is totaled. > > Now, I understand that global politics is more complicated than that, and I wouldn’t trust Trump in a million years with the job, but holding countries to their agreed upon obligations doesn’t sound that crazy to me. I mean, if we announce that they don’t need to honor their agreements up front, wouldn’t it be in their best interests not to? Is sounded to me more like Trump would re-write the deals and decide whether any particular country was paying “enough”. I think Trump USA would be far more likely the country that would end up not honoring already existing agreements. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2836 "2016-07-21T18:44:12Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > This one doesn’t work me up. What Trump said just doesn’t sound that outrageous to me. If countries agree to certain obligations, and they don’t meet them, then we either need to revisit the obligations or hold them accountable. If I don’t pay my insurance bill, I don’t get reimbursed when my car is totaled. > > Now, I understand that global politics is more complicated than that, and I wouldn’t trust Trump in a million years with the job, but holding countries to their agreed upon obligations doesn’t sound that crazy to me. I mean, if we announce that they don’t need to honor their agreements up front, wouldn’t it be in their best interests not to? In contrast I think that’s one of the stupidest and more gratuitously damaging statements Trump has made. A Putin threat to the Baltics is not theoretical as is a real military threat to Japan, Germany etc. It’s much less dangerous to use those as examples of the some general principle of ‘paying your insurance’\*. This is inviting somebody who is already looking at those countries as possible targets, of subversion and ‘little green men’ tactics if not overt aggression, if only he takes Trump seriously. But maybe Trump would later ‘clarify’ that actually we will fulfill our treaty obligations. That’s how completely unnecessary wars are started. Creating a possible crisis for no good reason. Very stupid and irresponsible even for Trump. \*which is debatable anyway. Populist demagogues can always score easy points in the US pretending our defense alliances aren’t intended to be in _our_ interest. And that’s the question, not if we and allies pay exactly proportionally/equally overall, or on a more micro basis of the differential in cost in basing given US military forces in other countries rather than at home. In a lot of cases now the host countries pay almost all that cost differential anyway. And if the idea is instead we just shouldn’t have those forces, that’s clearly our issue. Only the most childishly ignorant and naive people think we have such a large military as a favor to other countries. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2837 "2016-07-21T18:45:37Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > That’s the rational response for some who’s concerned about the well-being of his entire family, sure. But for someone who’s concerned only about himself, each murdered kid equals one fewer mouth to feed and a lower college tuition bill next fall. And one less hungry wolf who might go for _my_ throat … for a while, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2838 "2016-07-21T18:48:36Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I don’t know if you can say “it’s OK we lost \ because they owed us $48 million” and stay the good guys. Maybe they are holding out to get a better deal. Isn’t that the whole premise of Donald’s book? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2839 "2016-07-21T18:55:30Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > This one doesn’t work me up. What Trump said just doesn’t sound that outrageous to me. If countries agree to certain obligations, and they don’t meet them, then we either need to revisit the obligations or hold them accountable. If I don’t pay my insurance bill, I don’t get reimbursed when my car is totaled. > > Now, I understand that global politics is more complicated than that, and I wouldn’t trust Trump in a million years with the job, but holding countries to their agreed upon obligations doesn’t sound that crazy to me. I mean, if we announce that they don’t need to honor their agreements up front, wouldn’t it be in their best interests not to? The obligations of NATO members is set forth in the North Atlantic Treaty (also called the Washington Treaty). You can read the full text here: [http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official\_texts\_17120.htm](http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm) It’s quite short. I’ll quote the relevant articles (skipping stuff like how to drop out of the treaty or how to invite new nations). > [@](#): > > Article 2 > > The Parties will contribute toward the further development of peaceful and friendly international relations by strengthening their free institutions, by bringing about a better understanding of the principles upon which these institutions are founded, and by promoting conditions of stability and well-being. They will seek to eliminate conflict in their international economic policies and will encourage economic collaboration between any or all of them. > Article 3 > > In order more effectively to achieve the objectives of this Treaty, the Parties, separately and jointly, by means of continuous and effective self-help and mutual aid, will maintain and develop their individual and collective capacity to resist armed attack. > Article 4 > > The Parties will consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened. > Article 5 > > The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area. > > Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security . > Article 6 > > For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack: > [ul] > [li]on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France, on the territory of or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;[/li] [li] on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.[/li][/ul] > Article 7 > > This Treaty does not affect, and shall not be interpreted as affecting in any way the rights and obligations under the Charter of the Parties which are members of the United Nations, or the primary responsibility of the Security Council for the maintenance of international peace and security. That’s it. There’s nothing to revisit. We will mutually develop our free institutions. We will consult with and come to each other’s aid in times of attack. This Treaty is not to take the place of UN Security Council for the maintenance of international peacekeeping. That’s the sum total of everyone’s obligation. I couldn’t even tell you offhand who all the members are, but I can guarantee that they are all in good standing - in no small part because the United States has promised to be there for them. I also can’t help but point out that the one and only time Article 5, concerning coming to the aid of our allies, was ever invoked, _ever_ - was on September 11, 2001, when the United States was attacked. I don’t recall any of the other members of NATO insisting on some sort of audit, first, to make sure that the US was fulfilling all of _our_ obligations. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2840 "2016-07-21T22:05:30Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I don’t recall any of the other members of NATO insisting on some sort of audit, first, to make sure that the US was fulfilling all of _our_ obligations. Well, I don’t think an audit would be necessary, but I take the point. If the agreement is not pending on any specific duties or obligations, I’m totally cool with unconditional defense (and would feel foolish thinking Trump actually got one sorta right) ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2841 "2016-07-21T22:26:11Z")
With any treaty like NATO, it presumably has to be possible to say “ok, Belgium has just spent decades acting like total wazzocks, and not helping us when we need help. Belgium: you’re on notice, shape up, or we’re going to begin formal proceedings to vote you out, and if we vote you out, you’re on your own if big bad Putin attacks you”. But presumably until such a voting out happens, we’re still going to defend Belgium. And that’s absolutely essential, because otherwise how can any country depend on us? When we get a call at 2 a.m. that Russian tanks are rolling into a NATO ally, we don’t have time to stop and consult with our deal-making president as to whether he personally thinks that that country is worthy of our defense. They get our defense because they are in NATO, period. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/2842 "2016-07-21T22:54:52Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > This one doesn’t work me up. What Trump said just doesn’t sound that outrageous to me. If countries agree to certain obligations, and they don’t meet them, then we either need to revisit the obligations or hold them accountable. If I don’t pay my insurance bill, I don’t get reimbursed when my car is totaled. It’s actually one of his most outrageous statements. People care more when he calls a woman a bitch or something, but this sort of statement is a billion times more important - he’s undermining the very nature of NATO, which is the highest obligation of US foreign and military policy. If he decides some member of NATO isn’t holding up their end of the deal, then that’s something that can be dealt with by the alliance in peacetime. But to say “okay, go ahead and attack a NATO country, and after the fact we’ll decide if we care or not”, that’s an extremely destabilizing statement that practically dares Putin to start interfering with the Baltic states. A statement like that invites some crazy ass Cuban Missile Crisis tier event. Yes, tensions and force strengths are not what they were in the cold war. But people seem to have forgotten the world still has tens of thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at each other. This shit is serious and threatens to destabilize the entire world. This is actually probably his most dangerous statement yet that loudly shouts that he’s unqualified to be president. He’s unwilling to fulfill the most important part of US foreign and military policy, and publicly stating that he’s unwilling to fulfill it dramatically increases the chances of an extremely dangerous world crisis. People are worried whether he called some journalist a bitch, but the dude just fucking said he’s going to bring us closer to nuclear war than we’ve been in decades, to upset the stability we’ve achieved, and people think it’s some sort of minor flub. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901.md?page=141) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901.md?page=143)