# Donald Trump's 2016 General Election Campaign **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901 "2016-05-04T02:37:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 349
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6963 "2016-09-21T05:03:05Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Thank you. Do you have a cite that he was a terrorist? Yes, the same study, the same page. The table is titled “Identified Foreign Persons Who Attempted or Committed Terrorism on U.S. Soil” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6964 "2016-09-21T05:03:52Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I though we were discussing that report, but it talks about terrorism-related murders, which you have apparently decided we are not talking about. From that document: > [@page 10](#): > > Foreign-born terrorists on tourist visas have killed more Americans in attacks than those on any other type of visa, followed dis- > tantly by those who entered on student visas. The 2,983 deaths on 9/11 account for all but 41 of those deaths. Excluding the 9/11 attacks, the K-1 ancé(e) visa appears to be the deadli- est (due entirely to the San Bernardino attack) followed by LPRs and tourists. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6965 "2016-09-21T05:04:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, the same study, the same page. The table is titled “Identified Foreign Persons Who Attempted or Committed Terrorism on U.S. Soil” How many of the three terrorism-related murders committed by refugees was he responsible for? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6966 "2016-09-21T05:05:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, the same study, the same page. The table is titled “Identified Foreign Persons Who Attempted or Committed Terrorism on U.S. Soil” Thank you. I note that you missed answering another one of my questions: > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You said in the post I quoted “the last time a Clinton started a war (Bill, not Hillary)” and immediately followed it with a link to the Kosovo War wiki page. > > Why did you say what you said and provide that link if you weren’t asserting that Bill Clinton started the Kosovo War? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6967 "2016-09-21T05:06:29Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I though we were discussing that report, but it talks about terrorism-related murders, which you have apparently decided we are not talking about. The report credits the Tsarnaev brothers with 1.5 “terrorism-related murders” each. If you dig into the background of the attack and it’s aftermath, do you think it’s fair to say that only 3 of the people they killed were related to terrorism? I don’t. To start out that thread of the discussion, [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Marathon_bombing) puts the number of victims at 5. > [@](#): > > 3 civilians from bombing on April 15 > 1 police officer shot to death on April 18 > 1 police officer injured in an explosion on April 19, 2013, died April 10, 2014 How many of the Tsarnaev murders would _you_ classify as “terrorism-related”? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6968 "2016-09-21T05:09:39Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Thank you. I note that you missed answering another one of my questions: I thought I answered it with post #6938 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6969 "2016-09-21T05:13:09Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > How many of the three terrorism-related murders committed by refugees was he responsible for? His murder was several days before he set off the bomb. He shot a man to death. The Tsarnaev’s additional murders came several days after they set off the bombs at the Boston Marathon. I would classify them all as “terrorism-related”, but that’s just, like, my opinion. The Cato Institute seems to be under-counting murders by terrorist immigrants, probably because they’re a libertarian-leaning organization that is pro-immigration. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6970 "2016-09-21T05:14:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The report credits the Tsarnaev brothers with 1.5 “terrorism-related murders” each. If you dig into the background of the attack and it’s aftermath, do you think it’s fair to say that only 3 of the people they killed were related to terrorism? I don’t. To start out that thread of the discussion, [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Marathon_bombing) puts the number of victims at 5. > > How many of the Tsarnaev murders would _you_ classify as “terrorism-related”? You seem to be changing the subject. Let’s get back on course: Do you agree that, according to the report we are discussing, refugees have committed only 3 terrorism-related murders, all by Cuban refugees, and all of which occurred in the 1970’s before enhanced screening. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6971 "2016-09-21T05:16:12Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > His murder was several days before he set off the bomb. He shot a man to death. Was it terrorism-related? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6972 "2016-09-21T05:23:20Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > You seem to be changing the subject. Let’s get back on course: > > Do you agree that, according to the report we are discussing, refugees have committed only 3 terrorism-related murders, all by Cuban refugees, and all of which occurred in the 1970’s before enhanced screening. Yes, the report says that. The report is wrong (you seem to think critiquing the report is changing the subject. I don’t). Refugees have committed at least one additional murder (it happened to be the first one I checked) and committed maybe 10 other terrorist attacks since “enhanced screening” went into effect. Just because their attacks haven’t been fatal isn’t a testament to the effectiveness of our enhanced screening, so much as a streak of (mostly) good luck. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6973 "2016-09-21T05:24:24Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Was it terrorism-related? I think I answered that in post 6960. I think it probably was, just like I think that the Tsarnaev brothers’ additional murders were. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6974 "2016-09-21T05:32:14Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Thank you. Do you have a cite that he was a terrorist? The report classifies him as a terrorist, but then says that there’s doubt that he was actually committing terrorist attacks (see footnote 50 of the report). He set off a bomb, but he could have just been a regular crazy rather than a terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6975 "2016-09-21T05:37:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, the report says that. The report is wrong (you seem to think critiquing the report is changing the subject. I don’t). Refugees have committed at least one additional murder (it happened to be the first one I checked) and committed maybe 10 other terrorist attacks since “enhanced screening” went into effect. Just because their attacks haven’t been fatal isn’t a testament to the effectiveness of our enhanced screening, so much as a streak of (mostly) good luck. Feel free to live in whatever level of fear makes you comfortable. Personally, I’m not going to lose much sleep worrying about being murdered by secret refugee terrorists. Perhaps I would worry more if I was a Cuban dissident, and this was the 1970’s. But I’m not. And it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6976 "2016-09-21T05:41:37Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > The report classifies him as a terrorist, but then says that there’s doubt that he was actually committing terrorist attacks (see footnote 50 of the report). He set off a bomb, but he could have just been a regular crazy rather than a terrorist. I think the “terrorism-related” aspect of this is a hijack, or Clintonian lawerly parsing at it’s finest. In my eyes, this whole thing came up back on page 137 because Donald Trump Jr posted a meme “If I had a bowl of skittles and I told you just three would kill you. Would you take a handful? That’s our Syrian refugee problem.” Which led to a discussion about the relative probabilities and risks posed by immigrants, and refugee immigrants in particular. Someone borught up the 1 in 3.6 billion statistic, which led me to dig in and find the source of that number, which is the Cato Institute report we’re discussing. In examining the Cato Institute report, I think they (and some posters here) are under-representing the threat posed by refugees, by trying to constrain their attacks and murders to just those related to terrorism. Is regular-murder-by-a-refugee somehow less dangerous than terrorism-related-murder-by-a-refugee? In my eyes, no, it’s not. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6977 "2016-09-21T05:48:35Z")
In broad brush strokes, Trump wants a more restrained immigration policy, to put it mildly. That idea gets brought up a lot in the context of Syrian refugees because they’re in the news and the focus of a significant portion of our immigration discussion, but if you asked him, I doubt he thinks the K-1 visa (San Bernardino shootings) program is functioning well, or the asylum-seeker screening (Boston Marathon bombers), or whatever program Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez (Chattanooga shootings) came into the country under are functioning well and thoroughly screening dangerous terrorists out. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6978 "2016-09-21T05:50:18Z")
If Trump cannot or will not appeal to the “better angels of our nature”, is it too much to ask that he not arouse the belligerent ape? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6979 "2016-09-21T05:51:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think the “terrorism-related” aspect of this is a hijack, or Clintonian lawerly parsing at it’s finest. In my eyes, this whole thing came up back on page 137 because Donald Trump Jr posted a meme “If I had a bowl of skittles and I told you just three would kill you. Would you take a handful? That’s our Syrian refugee problem.” Which led to a discussion about the relative probabilities and risks posed by immigrants, and refugee immigrants in particular. Someone borught up the 1 in 3.6 billion statistic, which led me to dig in and find the source of that number, which is the Cato Institute report we’re discussing. In examining the Cato Institute report, I think they (and some posters here) are under-representing the threat posed by refugees, by trying to constrain their attacks and murders to just those related to terrorism. Is regular-murder-by-a-refugee somehow less dangerous than terrorism-related-murder-by-a-refugee? In my eyes, no, it’s not. YMMV. I haven’t seen any studies on refugees specifically, but immigrants generally have lower crime rates than native-born Americans. In fact, immigrants [tend to drive crime rates down](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X05000104). So… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6980 "2016-09-21T05:52:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > IIn examining the Cato Institute report, I think they (and some posters here) are under-representing the threat posed by refugees, by trying to constrain their attacks and murders to just those related to terrorism. I Excuse me if I disagree with you. Effectively your argument boils down to "We should not let any refugees in because it’s possible that some of them may turn out to be bad people and commit murders. " This lacks logical coherence. It focuses solely on the negative aspect of a policy. ALL policies have negatives. It ignores the relative risks. It ignores whether or not refugees are actually LESS likely to commit crimes. It ignores the BENEFITS that refugees bring. It is an illogical argument, full stop. Why does this argument even exist? It is based on the fear of “other”. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6981 "2016-09-21T05:59:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m all for protecting them from danger. Do you think we can’t adequately do that in Jordan or Turkey? My parents came to the United States as refugees. Hence, I’ll never be able to support someone who proposes to block refugees from coming to this country. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/6982 "2016-09-21T05:59:50Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I haven’t seen any studies on refugees specifically, but immigrants generally have lower crime rates than native-born Americans. In fact, immigrants [tend to drive crime rates down](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X05000104). > > So… [Here’s](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1745-9125.2009.00162.x/pdf)another good one: A good deal of research in recent years has revisited the relationship between immigration and violent crime. Various scholars have suggested that, contrary to the claims of the classic Chicago School, large immigrant populations might be associated with lower rather than higher rates of criminal violence. A limitation of the research in this area is that it has been based largely on cross-sectional analyses for a restricted range of geographic areas. Using time-series techniques and annual data for metropolitan areas over the 1994–2004 period, we assess the impact of changes in immigration on changes in violent crime rates. The findings of multivariate analyses indicate that violent crime rates tended to decrease as metropolitan areas experienced gains in their concentration of immigrants. This inverse relationship is especially robust for the offense of robbery. Overall, our results support the hypothesis that the broad reductions in violent crime during recent years are partially attributable to increases in immigration. So, to summarize, refugee terrorists aren’t murdering people. Immigration reduces violent crime rates. Cats and dogs, sleeping together. We’ve been lied to! Let’s go outside and read a book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901.md?page=348) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901.md?page=350)