# Donald Trump's 2016 General Election Campaign **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901 "2016-05-04T02:37:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1021 "2016-06-07T10:15:57Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > [When it is a poor translation, for one.](http://sdlrla.com/the-name/) Thanks for the link. But whether it’s The Race, The People, or The Community, it’s still problematic. It is intended to read as THE race, THE People or THE Community. And while it’s nice to learn the seemingly quainter origins of the term, that seems to have little to no bearing on the use of the term, sans “Cosmica”, since 1970. And I am quite tickled by the argument that Hispanic isn’t a race, so it can’t be racist. Meanwhile Trump gets labeled a racist for not only NOT being racist by talking about people from Mexico, but specifically people from Mexico coming here _illegally_. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1022 "2016-06-07T10:40:36Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Thanks for the link. But whether it’s The Race, The People, or The Community, it’s still problematic. It is intended to read as THE race, THE People or THE Community. > > And while it’s nice to learn the seemingly quainter origins of the term, that seems to have little to no bearing on the use of the term, sans “Cosmica”, since 1970. Howso? That’s both the source of the term as a whole and the claimed implication of the names of groups like this. > [@](#): > > And I am quite tickled by the argument that Hispanic isn’t a race, so it can’t be racist. Meanwhile Trump gets labeled a racist for not only NOT being racist by talking about people from Mexico, but specifically people from Mexico coming here _illegally_. The argument is that “The Race” in this context _does not mean hispanics_. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1023 "2016-06-07T10:41:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, the conservatives at RedState clearly see Trump as the racist, and the “La Raza” item. Not so much. Oh please. Erick Erickson is an avowed Trump hater. :rolleyes: But to be clear, two things: 1. I think Trump’s problem with Curiel is misguided. He seems like a fine judge and he, like all judges, deserve the default position of assuming them to be able to judge impartially. But I don’t think Trump’s concern is necessarily racist. I think it is fair to be suspicious of anyone who belongs to an organization entitled The Race, regardless of which race it is referring to. but I am glad he seems to be backing away from his position. 2. See my response to DSeid regarding the name origins. Also, the more benign La Raza Lawyers of California was founded in 1977, after the completely racist National Council of La Raza was already established back in the 60s. A bit odd that an organization for lawyers would take—and keep till today—a name that is much better known for it’s overtly racist positions. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1024 "2016-06-07T10:42:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > On second thought, how is an organization called “La Raza” (The Race) not flagrantly racist? Because they are using the word, in Spanish, in the sense that it had prior to Linnaeus borrowing the term to separate groups of people for his attempt to define taxonomy. Calling _La Raza_ racist makes no more sense than calling The Story of the Irish Race by McManus racist or calling the Indy 500 or the Kentucky Derby racist. Many words have multiple meanings and race is definitely one of them. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1025 "2016-06-07T10:52:22Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Howso? That’s both the source of the term as a whole and the claimed implication of the names of groups like this. > > The argument is that “The Race” in this context _does not mean hispanics_. Really? That doesn’t sound right at all. What race, or people, outside of Hispanics do you think it is intended to refer to? From DSeid’s link: > [@](#): > > The term “La Raza” has its origins in early 20th century Latin American literature and translates into English most closely as “the people” or, according to some scholars, as “the Hispanic people of the New World.” The term was coined by Mexican scholar José Vasconcelos to reflect the fact that the people of Latin America are a mixture of many of the world’s races, cultures, and religions. In contrast, the term “Hispanic” has its origins in the 1970 U.S. Census, and the term “Latino” was officially adopted in 1997 by the U.S. Government in the ethnonym “Hispanic or Latino.” > Mistranslating “La Raza” to mean “the race” implies that it is a term meant to exclude others. In fact, the full term coined by Vasconcelos, “La Raza Cósmica,” meaning the “cosmic people,” was developed to reflect not purity but the mixture inherent in the Hispanic people. This is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1026 "2016-06-07T10:54:15Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Thanks for the link. But whether it’s The Race, The People, or The Community, it’s still problematic. It is intended to read as THE race, THE People or THE Community. … No idea how the heck you get that other than from than twisting you head just so and squinting your eyes exactly right under just the right light. But sure let us imagine that the _intent_ was that the “The” was to be read as “THE” … “THE (Hispanic American) Community” The “THE” is “problematic”?!? Hoo boy and wow. No, being part of THE Latino Bar Association of California, or of THE Catholic Lawyers Guild of Chicago for that matter, is not racist and it is an odd spin indeed to try to go there. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1027 "2016-06-07T11:01:47Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But to be clear, two things: > > 1. I think Trump’s problem with Curiel is misguided. He seems like a fine judge and he, like all judges, deserve the default position of assuming them to be able to judge impartially. But I don’t think Trump’s concern is necessarily racist. I think it is fair to be suspicious of anyone who belongs to an organization entitled The Race, regardless of which race it is referring to. That was not Trump’s complaint at the start and as far as I know he never brought it up. But even assuming he did, all that means is that he doesn’t understand what “La Raza” means. You are taking a spanish phrase and misinterpreting it. Says who? Says the group who has taken the name! > [@](#): > > 1. See my response to DSeid regarding the name origins. Also, the more benign La Raza Lawyers of California was founded in 1977, after the completely racist National Council of La Raza was already established back in the 60s. A bit odd that an organization for lawyers would take—and keep till today—a name that is much better known for it’s overtly racist positions. Is there any evidence that the NCLR is notably racist? And even if that’s the case, why should that discredit others from using what appears to be a fairly common hispanic turn of phrase? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1028 "2016-06-07T11:02:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Really? That doesn’t sound right at all. What race, or people, outside of Hispanics do you think it is intended to refer to? From DSeid’s link: Everyone. See: the exact thing you just quoted. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1029 "2016-06-07T11:04:30Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > “Racism” has always been a very ambiguous word. I’d avoid the term altogether except in the most blatant and egregious cases. A point we can probably agree on. And I’ll do that as soon as other board members do. But even then, it would be safe to call the NCLR as a racist organization. > [@septimus](#): > > 😕 Is it racist for Hispanics to call each other Hispanic? Some on this board might argue so, not me. As I’ve said many, many times, just because something is racial does not make it racist. And we should reserve the latter term for clear instances of ugly racism. > [@septimus](#): > > IIRC, in other threads you’ve defended whites from well-founded charges of “racism.” Now you accuse Hispanics of “racism” just for self-identifying? 😕 Double-standard much? Well, I’m pretty sure we probably would disagree on those charges being “well-founded” of not. To be clear again, my position is that NCLR is, indeed, a racist organization. Even the cites given seem to agree on that point. I do n to think that the organization the judge belongs to is a racist organization, but the fact that they 1) have the name they do and 2) keep it today in light of the greater visibility of NCLR, makes suspicion of them understandable. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1030 "2016-06-07T11:06:04Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Everyone. See: the exact thing you just quoted. I’m not seeing what you evidently do. Can you be more specific? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1031 "2016-06-07T11:14:49Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’m not seeing what you evidently do. Can you be more specific? In fact, the full term coined by Vasconcelos, “La Raza Cósmica,” meaning the “cosmic people,” was developed to reflect not purity but the mixture inherent in the Hispanic people. **This is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny**. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1032 "2016-06-07T11:20:08Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > No idea how the heck you get that other than from than twisting you head just so and squinting your eyes exactly right under just the right light. But sure let us imagine that the _intent_ was that the “The” was to be read as “THE” … “THE (Hispanic American) Community” > > The “THE” is “problematic”?!? Hoo boy and wow. No, being part of THE Latino Bar Association of California, or of THE Catholic Lawyers Guild of Chicago for that matter, is not racist and it is an odd spin indeed to try to go there. What? Neither of those is like referring top an organization as The Race. The examples you give simple describe the makeup of the organization. “The Race” does something else entirely. Just imagine an organization with white membership referring to itself as “The Race”. Suer, they’re not as virulently racist as MEChA (who they have funded), and do some good work, but to claim they are not a racist organization takes way too much acrobatic effort. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1033 "2016-06-07T11:23:38Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > In fact, the full term coined by Vasconcelos, “La Raza Cósmica,” meaning the “cosmic people,” was developed to reflect not purity but the mixture inherent in the Hispanic people. **This is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny**. Did you miss the part of how in NOW refers to Hispanic people? It’s more innocent 1925 origins are now merely a footnote. No one pretends that that is now what is meant by the term. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1034 "2016-06-07T11:27:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Because they are using the word, in Spanish, in the sense that it had prior to Linnaeus borrowing the term to separate groups of people for his attempt to define taxonomy. > > Calling _La Raza_ racist makes no more sense than calling The Story of the Irish Race by McManus racist or calling the Indy 500 or the Kentucky Derby racist. Many words have multiple meanings and race is definitely one of them. So, is it your opinion that the NCLR is no more racist than McManus or his book? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1035 "2016-06-07T11:28:35Z")
Gotta run. Back later. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1036 "2016-06-07T11:36:51Z")
Uh yeah the poster has decided what the intent of the name was and clearly will not be swayed any actual facts. The phrase in this usage (including since the '70s) has a clear meaning of “the Hispanic community” … now some could some use the name “The Hispanic Community” … or “The Jewish Community” say … in an ethnocentric manner … sure. “The National Association of Colored People” does not have the same interpretation as “The National Association of Whites” would, and “Colored” does not have to be excluded in that context because in another context the word has other intent. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1037 "2016-06-07T11:48:10Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > That article is wrong. The Republican primary was in March. Yeah but they couldn’t afford to release the results until yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1038 "2016-06-07T12:15:24Z")
What Trump said is racist because he specifically referenced Curiel’s ethnic background as a reason that he is biased, even if he also mentioned an organization he belonged to. (paraphrasing) ‘He’s a biased judge because he’s Mexican and he belongs to this group’ is a racist (or bigoted, if you want to quibble that Mexican isn’t a “race”) statement because he’s tying the bias to the man’s intrinsic ethnicity, even if he’s also tying it to a group he belongs to. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1039 "2016-06-07T12:45:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What Trump said is racist because he specifically referenced Curiel’s ethnic background as a reason that he is biased, even if he also mentioned an organization he belonged to. (paraphrasing) ‘He’s a biased judge because he’s Mexican and he belongs to this group’ is a racist (or bigoted, if you want to quibble that Mexican isn’t a “race”) statement because he’s tying the bias to the man’s intrinsic ethnicity, even if he’s also tying it to a group he belongs to. No, only to people who perceive the term Mexican as inferior would referring to someone as Mexican be considered racist. If Trump had referred to Curiel as Nordic or as a Mensa member, he wouldn’t be called racist. If people thought Mexican referred to highly intelligent people from a society that functions extremely well with strong moral fortitude like I do, then there wouldn’t be a problem. But when they think Mexican is a pejorative, they reveal their own dark racism impeded in their hearts. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1040 "2016-06-07T12:53:11Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > No, only to people who perceive the term Mexican as inferior would referring to someone as Mexican be considered racist. If Trump had referred to Curiel as Nordic or as a Mensa member, he wouldn’t be called racist. If people thought Mexican referred to highly intelligent people from a society that functions extremely well with strong moral fortitude like I do, then there wouldn’t be a problem. But when they think Mexican is a pejorative, they reveal their own dark racism impeded in their hearts. You’re going to hurt yourself with all that twisting and spinning. Here’s the poop and nothing but the poop: Trump began to rise in the polls by saying that Mexico was sending us their drugs and their rapists and he was going to build a wall and have Mexico pay for it. He was capitalizing on the bigotry of the Republican base. Now he says this judge (whose family has been in the US longer than part of Trump’s) cannot do his job fairly because of his heritage. That is racism. Not to mention, Muslim judges and women judges also couldn’t judge The Donald fairly. So only white men are fit to judge Trump. If you can’t see that as racism, then you can’t see racism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901.md?page=53)