# Donald Trump's 2016 General Election Campaign **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901 "2016-05-04T02:37:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 78
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1541 "2016-06-18T20:00:43Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Despite what that quoted professor said in that article, that you could fake up some pretext to make it “legal”, anyone trying it would be inviting a whole hell of a lot of law enforcement attention. Because you know, it would be the most public and obvious case of political bribery in American history. Yes, they could get the Kochs (and anyone else coughing up the cash) on bribery–and they could get Trump on extortion. “Nice little party you have here, Republicans…be a shame if anything were to happen to it…” > [@AnalogSignal](#): > > A “Super PAC” called “Americans Against Insecure Billionaires with Tiny Hands” is running an ad: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LhNjWoBZck](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LhNjWoBZck) > The group is actively asking Trump to release his hand measurements. 🙂 > More info here: [http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/super-pac-targets-donald-trumps-](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/super-pac-targets-donald-trumps-) > tiny-hands/story?id=39935132 I don’t know why this always irritates me, but: what Graydon Carter (of Spy Magazine) was talking about was NOT the size of Trump’s hands, nor was it the implied size of Trump’s penis. Carter was calling Trump a _peasant_. (Who proverbially had short fingers; the aristocrats had _long_ fingers.) Of course that particular insult resonates more with those who believe that coming from old money is An Important Thing, than it does with the general population. But that’s what it’s about. It’s not about hand size or penis size. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1542 "2016-06-18T20:23:54Z")
When being wrong is more fun than being right, and otherwise harmless, be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1543 "2016-06-18T20:46:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > When being wrong is more fun than being right, and otherwise harmless, be wrong. I guess. The funniest part of the whole thing, of course, is that Trump both misunderstood Carter’s insult, and _didn’t recognize “vulgarian” as an insult_. At all. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1544 "2016-06-18T21:08:33Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The funniest part of the whole thing, of course, is that Trump both misunderstood Carter’s insult, and _didn’t recognize “vulgarian” as an insult_. At all. And that he’s still peeved about it 30 years later. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1545 "2016-06-18T21:51:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And that he’s still peeved about it 30 years later. Yes. Though it’s certainly true that “short-fingered vulgarian” is the _quintessential_ “linguistic kill shot” as defined by the aforementioned-in-this-thread Scott Adams. Adams might dispute this, but: none of Trump’s own efforts can match it. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1546 "2016-06-18T22:49:02Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > _didn’t recognize “vulgarian” as an insult_. At all. There’s something nagging at the back of my head about this: There’s a difference between not recognizing an insult because the word is outside of your vocabulary, and not recognizing an insult because it doesn’t occur to you to think of that descriptor as insulting. Now, don’t get me wrong. With Trump, I’m pretty sure it was the former, that he honestly didn’t understand the word “vulgarian” and he didn’t want to spend the five minutes with a dictionary it would have taken him to figure it out. However, the latter is a bit nasty, don’t you think? You’re saying that some aspect of someone _should_ cause them shame, and the fact it doesn’t is _another_ point of shame. For me, the concept of being a “vulgarian” is just about at that level: It’s saying “You’re bad for being common, or giving the common people what they want, and you should feel bad for focusing your attentions on the middle income and lower income as opposed to us, your betters.” It’s just a rather nasty kind of preening classism I’d expect from a Bush in one of that clan’s more unguarded moments, or from a Romney when the help has mostly been shooed away. The way Trump responded to the insult negates this, of course, and I’m sure Bulgaria has the greatest people. The best people. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1547 "2016-06-18T23:04:11Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Yes, they could get the Kochs (and anyone else coughing up the cash) on bribery–and they could get Trump on extortion. What sort of bribery? Trump is not an elected official and he is not a government employee who would be accepting money to break the law. Bowing out of an election is not a crime, so being paid to do so is hardly a crime involving bribery. Similarly, it would be extremely difficult to prove in a court of law that Trump deliberately spent the effort to become the Republican nominee for the purpose of threatening to tear apart that party if he was not paid to go away. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1548 "2016-06-18T23:22:39Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > What sort of bribery? Trump is not an elected official and he is not a government employee who would be accepting money to break the law. Bowing out of an election is not a crime, so being paid to do so is hardly a crime involving bribery. > > Similarly, it would be extremely difficult to prove in a court of law that Trump deliberately spent the effort to become the Republican nominee for the purpose of threatening to tear apart that party if he was not paid to go away. I actually agree with both your points. I was typing a bit facetiously with the “they could get” construction I used in that post. But at the same time, the public reaction to a (hypothetical) large check handed to Trump by the Kochs (or such) would be that something underhanded has occurred. There would be outrage, and it wouldn’t matter to those howling that there’s nothing illegal in either paying a candidate to go away, or behaving so atrociously that people will pay you to go away. The GOP’s chances for holding on to seats in Congress (and other offices) would not be enhanced by such public outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1549 "2016-06-18T23:31:34Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > There’s something nagging at the back of my head about this: > > There’s a difference between not recognizing an insult because the word is outside of your vocabulary, and not recognizing an insult because it doesn’t occur to you to think of that descriptor as insulting. > > Now, don’t get me wrong. With Trump, I’m pretty sure it was the former, that he honestly didn’t understand the word “vulgarian” and he didn’t want to spend the five minutes with a dictionary it would have taken him to figure it out. > > However, the latter is a bit nasty, don’t you think? You’re saying that some aspect of someone _should_ cause them shame, and the fact it doesn’t is _another_ point of shame. For me, the concept of being a “vulgarian” is just about at that level: It’s saying “You’re bad for being common, or giving the common people what they want, and you should feel bad for focusing your attentions on the middle income and lower income as opposed to us, your betters.” It’s just a rather nasty kind of preening classism I’d expect from a Bush in one of that clan’s more unguarded moments, or from a Romney when the help has mostly been shooed away. > > The way Trump responded to the insult negates this, of course, and I’m sure Bulgaria has the greatest people. The best people. As I recall, Carter used “short-fingered vulgarian” largely on _aesthetic_ grounds. He wasn’t thinking in terms of politics. At the time Trump was always getting into the news by demolishing landmark building elements ‘accidentally’;\* then, of course, there was Trump’s taste as revealed in all the solid-gold commodes and such-like to be found in his properties. We may transfer the “vulgarian” label to his expressed political views now, or refrain from doing so on the grounds of avoiding classism—but apparently that wasn’t the original application of the term. It was simply a reference to Trump’s kitschy instincts about décor, dress, etc… \*The Bonwit Teller façade story: [Toledo Blade - Google News Archive Search](https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat=19800605&id=-UVPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=FwMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4962,2307356&hl=en) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1550 "2016-06-19T00:03:01Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I guess. > > The funniest part of the whole thing, of course, is that Trump both misunderstood Carter’s insult, and _didn’t recognize “vulgarian” as an insult_. At all. Why would he think that being compared with that really smart pointy-eared guy on _Star Trek_ was an insult? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1551 "2016-06-19T00:06:06Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Trump both misunderstood Carter’s insult, and _didn’t recognize “vulgarian” as an insult_. At all. Like a lot of New Yorkers out on the town, late at night, too many cocktails under our belts, Trump will order his limousine down to the Lower East Side restaurant row to sop up the booze with bowls of \shopka, shekembe chorba, guvech\, and \turshiya. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1552 "2016-06-19T00:57:30Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > We may transfer the “vulgarian” label to his expressed political views now, or refrain from doing so on the grounds of avoiding classism—but apparently that wasn’t the original application of the term. It was simply a reference to Trump’s kitschy instincts about décor, dress, etc… This still equates having bad taste to being of the lower, or common, classes, which is still classist. “Vulgar” in all of its forms is inherently classist. Now, we can say that, since Trump’s American, we have no hereditary classes, as the British do, so Trump is whatever class he acts like, as are we all. But that’s rather redolent of the backpedal, and, worse, outmoded, given that folk art (inclusive of folk music) has been valued by high society for decades now. What gets the side-eye is when poor people buy the stuff rich people sell them, which is a post (or a book, or a whole field of academia…) all on its own. (See: The term “kitsch” and what it implies.) Anyway, all this is a hijack. Trump’s a terrible human being for reasons which have little to do with any of the historic notions of class, and everything to do with failings you find at every stratum of society. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1553 "2016-06-19T01:10:06Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > What sort of bribery? Trump is not an elected official and he is not a government employee who would be accepting money to break the law. Bowing out of an election is not a crime, so being paid to do so is hardly a crime involving bribery. That is a rather peculiar way to think of bribery. An official doesn’t have to do something illegal to be guilty of bribery. Hiring a garbage collector is perfectly legal but an official could still have been bribed when he made the decision. Furthermore, a majority of States have commercial bribery laws that do not require a public officials involvement. Lastly, there are definitely elections laws about getting an opponent to drop out of a race in exchange for jobs or money. Not sure if they could easily be applied to a third party doing the offer though. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1554 "2016-06-19T01:21:19Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That is a rather peculiar way to think of bribery. An official doesn’t have to do something illegal to be guilty of bribery. Hiring a garbage collector is perfectly legal but an official could still have been bribed when he made the decision. And the person accepting the bribe and selecting the service provider would be a government official–elected or hired. Neither the Koch brothers nor Trump are government officials. While one might engage in bribery to cause one person to take a particular action, in order to be a crime it would have to violate a government rule or a legally entered contract. > [@CarnalK](#): > > Furthermore, a majority of States have commercial bribery laws that do not require a public officials involvement. They do, however, require the involvement, in some way, of a contract. What contract has Trump siggned to run for president? > [@CarnalK](#): > > Lastly, there are definitely elections laws about getting an opponent to drop out of a race in exchange for jobs or money. Not sure if they could easily be applied to a third party doing the offer though. Can you provide a reference to such a law to see whether it has any bearing on the hypothetical presented? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1555 "2016-06-19T01:35:06Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > And the person accepting the bribe and selecting the service provider would be a government official–elected or hired. Neither the Koch brothers nor Trump are government officials. While one might engage in bribery to cause one person to take a particular action, in order to be a crime it would have to violate a government rule or a legally entered contract. That’s not true. At all. It’s paying for influence, which might be breaking a rule but that is not a requirement for bribery. > **[18 U.S. Code § 201 - Bribery of public officials and witnesses](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/201)** > [@](#): > > Can you provide a reference to such a law to see whether it has any bearing on the hypothetical presented? Have to get back to you on that. I’ve seen it referenced to Christie and/or Carson getting jobs from Trump, if you feel like looking it up yourself. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1556 "2016-06-19T01:41:16Z")
There is in fact someone currently someone [under arrest awaiting trial](http://wbtw.com/2016/03/30/horry-county-council-candidate-dick-withington-arrested/) specifically on the charge of taking money in return for dropping out of a race. > [@](#): > > Withington, Horry County Council District 4 and South Carolina State Senate District 34 candidate, was jailed Tuesday on accusations he offered to accept thousands of dollars from four people to drop out of an upcoming election. [Another case-](http://www.journalnow.com/news/local/former-davidson-county-prosecutor-indicted/article_f416e797-af78-58c5-8ab3-fabe5ad7c309.html) > [@](#): > > A former Davidson County prosecutor sent a text message offering $20,000 to a District Court judge in an effort to get the judge’s husband to drop out of the race for a Superior Court judge seat, according to an indictment returned Tuesday. … Wendy Joyce Terry, 43, of River Oaks Lane in Advance was indicted on six charges, including two counts of felony buying and selling offices. > Terry was also charged with felony obstructing justice, misdemeanor primary/election violation, attempt to obtain property by false pretenses and attempt to violate campaign contribution limitation. She ended up pleading guilty and taking [a deal.](http://www.wxii12.com/news/former-davidson-county-assistant-district-attorney-wendy-terry-pleads-guilty/36738504) > [@](#): > > Wendy Joyce Terry received 2 years’ supervised probation and was fined $5,000 as part of the agreement, according to court documents. She will not be allowed to run for office, donate to campaigns or attend campaign events during the probation period. > > Terry, 43, also was ordered to perform 400 hours of community service as part of the agreement. So, uh, no, bribery does not require an already elected official nor that the action would otherwise be breaking the law if not done as a result of a bribe. It sure seems to me that offering Trump money to drop out, or his soliciting such, let alone that money changing hands, would fit those molds and be considered illegal, even if structured with the facade of a business deal. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1557 "2016-06-19T02:13:41Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > \*The Bonwit Teller façade story: [Toledo Blade - Google News Archive Search](https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat=19800605&id=-UVPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=FwMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4962,2307356&hl=en) Anybody else happen to notice the name near the bottom of that story in the photostat? > [@](#): > > But Donald Baron, a vice president of the Trump firm, said Thursday that the company decided not to save the panels… I guess John has a brother… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1558 "2016-06-19T03:23:51Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > This still equates having bad taste to being of the lower, or common, classes, which is still classist. “Vulgar” in all of its forms is inherently classist. Look, there really is a personal quality called “class,” which is admirable and worth having. Vulgarity is lack of class. Persons of practically any social background can have some class if they really try, and The Donald has never in his life tried. We all know people like him, people who are the exact opposite of what you think when you hear the word “classy.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1559 "2016-06-19T03:39:47Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > So, uh, no, bribery does not require an already elected official. . . While you may be correct, I note that the second of the cases you cite were related to persons who already held office. ETA: Are there such laws applicable to Federal offices? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901/1560 "2016-06-19T04:42:15Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > …ETA: Are there such laws applicable to Federal offices? “Bribery of public officials and witnesses” doesn’t quite seem to fit: [18 U.S. Code § 201 - Bribery of public officials and witnesses | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/201) Nor does “Promise of employment or other benefit for political activity”: [18 U.S. Code § 600 - Promise of employment or other benefit for political activity | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/600) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901.md?page=77) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trumps-2016-general-election-campaign/753901.md?page=79)