# Donald's secret tax returns, and Hillary's secret Wall St. speeches **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 23, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153 "2016-06-23T15:31:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/41 "2016-06-24T22:23:14Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > I went to an inner city public high school with unionized Democrat teachers so you must forgive me. It’s amazing the lengths you’ll go to blame other people for your mistakes and avoid accepting any personal responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/42 "2016-06-24T22:38:09Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > Hillary needs to make the election as much as possible a referendum on whether Trump is a basically suitable person to hold the office. His tax returns might be a gold mine to do that, but we really _don’t_ know why he’s so reluctant to release them, and if it’s a gold mine for her he’s not going to. Nor does she get a lot of traction talking about it if he can say ‘how about the speeches’. But he can’t say that if she says “I’ll show you mine if you show me yours”. > [@elbows](#): > > Wow! > > Donald has exactly one tax return. > > How many speeches has Hilary given again? > > Yeah, that seems fair! > > Once again, the only equivalence to Donald releasing his tax return is Hilary releasing hers. A child could see as much. > > (You’re the one that just keeps banging THIS drum, in reality!) Was this addressed to me? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/43 "2016-06-24T22:56:33Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > …I can remember a couple of kneejerk conservative types who weren’t reticent about their views in the slightest. Seventh grade civics, Mr Whatshisface instructing the class on the evils of socialism. (I totally approved.) “If you were getting an A, is it fair to make that a C so some guy doesn’t get an F? Would you do that?”. “Yes” from somewhere in the back. “I’m a Christian, I have to.” Ronny McIntire, if you’re out there, good on you. You were right, I was wrong and so was he. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/44 "2016-06-24T23:34:19Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Liberal and progressives who support Clinton have zero integrity. They’ve been screaming about reigning in Wall Street, and yet, have no problem with Clinton family having a close relationship with the CEO of Gold Man Sacks or accepting 21 million in speech money. Is this Goldman Sacks Fifth Avenue? And remember, Trump married two immigrants, taking good jobs away from American women. Do you care? Of course not. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/45 "2016-06-24T23:43:25Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And remember, Trump married two immigrants, taking good jobs away from American women. Do you care? Of course not. Marrying Donald Trump is the equivalent of picking lettuce. No American women want that job. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/46 "2016-06-25T04:01:02Z")
From CNBC…not Faux News Headline: Wall Street tells Hillary Clinton: We’ll cut you off if you pick Elizabeth Warren “If Clinton picked Warren , her whole base on Wall Street would leave her,” one top Democratic donor who has helped raise millions for Clinton told me. “They would literally just say, ‘We have no qualms with you moving left, we understand all the things you’ve had to do because of Bernie Sanders, but if you are going there with Warren, we just can’t trust you, you’ve killed it.’” > **[Wall Street tells Hillary Clinton: We'll cut you off if you pick Elizabeth...](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wall-street-tells-hillary-clinton-162625809.html)** > > Wall Street has an unambiguous message for Hillary Clinton: Don't pick Elizabeth Warren as your VP, Politico's Ben White says. Yeah, she’s a Wall Street puppet. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/47 "2016-06-25T04:32:44Z")
Well, maybe. The source is this one guy, apparently. Says he speaks for all those other guys. Well, maybe. And, frankly, I rather doubt that Ms Warren is the most likely, or even the best, pick. Besides, ticket wise, she’s a woman, and HRC’s got that one pretty well down. From Massacussetts, already bluish, certainly looks bluish. And if Sanders can’t or _won’t_ get the sulking progressives on board, why would we think she could? For my two bits, she’s better right where she is. Remember Theodore Roosevelt? How the Oink Lobby of New York urged him for the Vice President nomination to “kick him upstairs” and get him out of their hair? Some our current crop of greedfreaks are smart enough to see that VP Warren might be less of a pill than Sen. Warren. I agree, which is why I want her right where she is. Our financial and investment “industries” have become exciting. Which is appropriate, perhaps, for a casino. She thinks it should be dull, reliable, and solid. I think she’s right. And I’m not just saying that because she is so hot! She is, but that isn’t why! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/48 "2016-06-25T21:02:50Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > From CNBC…not Faux News > > Headline: Wall Street tells Hillary Clinton: We’ll cut you off if you pick Elizabeth Warren > > “If Clinton picked Warren , her whole base on Wall Street would leave her,” one top Democratic donor who has helped raise millions for Clinton told me. “They would literally just say, ‘We have no qualms with you moving left, we understand all the things you’ve had to do because of Bernie Sanders, but if you are going there with Warren, we just can’t trust you, you’ve killed it.’” > > [Wall Street tells Hillary Clinton: We'll cut you off if you pick Elizabeth Warren](https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/wall-street-tells-hillary-clinton-162625809.html) > > Yeah, she’s a Wall Street puppet. Said the conservative propagandist. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/49 "2016-06-25T21:34:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, maybe. The source is this one guy, apparently. Says he speaks for all those other guys. Well, maybe. > > And, frankly, I rather doubt that Ms Warren is the most likely, or even the best, pick. Besides, ticket wise, she’s a woman, and HRC’s got that one pretty well down. From Massacussetts, already bluish, certainly looks bluish. And if Sanders can’t or _won’t_ get the sulking progressives on board, why would we think she could? For my two bits, she’s better right where she is. Source is one guy, but ‘conservative propaganda’ (from another post)? I don’t see that. There’s general truth in the idea that picking Warren is Hillary reducing the ‘strategic ambiguity’ of how far left she has moved, insofar as support not only from donors but a lot of ordinary voters. For some the leftier the better, for a lot of others not as much. MA ‘bluish’? I assume that’s a joke. It may be conventional and boring to pick a running mate from a swing state, but it probably actually works if that’s also a reasonable candidate as a standalone. Likewise picking somebody who checks a different ‘diversity’ box, if a good candidate otherwise. Clinton picking Warren means she feels too weak to get the left wing of the Democrats solidly behind her otherwise. If she feels stronger, she’s probably better off with somebody like Sherrod Brown, Tim Kaine etc (swing state) or Julian Castro, Tom Perez etc. (Hispanic). And also there’s a matter of generating a bench for the future, Warren will be 74 in 2024. For those who say ‘Hillary will win no matter what’, fine, and I also believe it’s more likely she wins that not w/ any reasonable VP pick. But it would be political malpractice for her advisers or her not to try to maximize the winning likelihood, with a person qualified to be Pres if need be. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/50 "2016-06-26T05:28:40Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > Clinton picking Warren means she feels too weak to get the left wing of the Democrats solidly behind her otherwise. If she feels stronger, she’s probably better off with somebody like Sherrod Brown, Tim Kaine etc (swing state) or Julian Castro, Tom Perez etc. (Hispanic). And also there’s a matter of generating a bench for the future, Warren will be 74 in 2024. If she wants the left behind her, she should go with Sherrod Brown. He is not as well known as Warren, but he is solidly liberal, **and** he is from a swing state, so a twofer. Tim Kaine is swing state, but I believe he is fairly moderate, so no help with the left. I would think Castro would be a good pick, from what I have heard (Not that much really) he is fairly left and Hispanic, plus he is young and has experience as mayor of San Antonio and head of HUD. (Okay, he had some issues there with the mortgage thing, but no one is perfect.) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/51 "2016-06-26T06:51:41Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > I would think Castro would be a good pick, from what I have heard (Not that much really) he is fairly left and Hispanic, plus he is young and has experience as mayor of San Antonio and head of HUD. (Okay, he had some issues there with the mortgage thing, but no one is perfect.) I dunno. The quality of Trump’s arguments and those who accept them might mean freaking out over someone named Castro. On the other hand, it might be a way to cement his anti-Latino bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/52 "2016-06-26T08:44:24Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I didn’t know those two were also running. Well, you do now. > [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Chelsea has actively campaigned for her mother and thus fair game. > > Liberal and progressives who support Clinton have zero integrity… And don’t forget that Monica Lewinsky, who’s also running, has a 2nd cousin who delivered pizza to one of the East Coast’s biggest child pornographers. The more you learn about the Clintons, the more you start to worry that Trump will lose to the Satanic forces of darkness. Keep clutching those pearls. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/53 "2016-06-26T13:25:39Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Well, you do now. > > And don’t forget that Monica Lewinsky, who’s also running, has a 2nd cousin who delivered pizza to one of the East Coast’s biggest child pornographers. The more you learn about the Clintons, the more you start to worry that Trump will lose to the Satanic forces of darkness. > > Keep clutching those pearls. What do you imagine Lloyd Blankfein CEO of Gold Man Sacks gave Chelsea Clinton whose husband is business partners with Blankfein for her baby shower? Bundles of unmarked 100 dollar bills? Did he run into Hillary at the baby shower? Is there an equivalent to a Godfather in the Jewish religion and will CEO Lloyd Blankfein of Gold Man Sacks serve in that capacity so that he will conveniently run into Hillary? Speaking of man sacks, how many Wall Street leaders be at the bris? ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/54 "2016-06-26T19:02:12Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I dunno. The quality of Trump’s arguments and those who accept them might mean freaking out over someone named Castro. > > On the other hand, it might be a way to cement his anti-Latino bigotry. Anyone in Trump’s camp who freaks out over the name Castro is already a lost cause. They refer to our current president as Barry **HUSSEIN** Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/55 "2016-06-26T20:00:53Z")
And the benefit of picking Castro is that both the Hispanic voters now considering siding with Trump would be secured for the Democratic ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/56 "2016-06-26T23:40:33Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > What do you imagine Lloyd Blankfein CEO of Gold Man Sacks gave Chelsea Clinton whose husband is business partners with Blankfein for her baby shower? Bundles of unmarked 100 dollar bills? Did he run into Hillary at the baby shower? Is there an equivalent to a Godfather in the Jewish religion and will CEO Lloyd Blankfein of Gold Man Sacks serve in that capacity so that he will conveniently run into Hillary? Speaking of man sacks, how many Wall Street leaders be at the bris? Could we possibly see a more accurate representation of the Republican party line? Try using the actual name of the corporation, or go back to the Faux News boards. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/57 "2016-06-27T01:57:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, maybe. The source is this one guy, apparently. Says he speaks for all those other guys. Well, maybe. > > And, frankly, I rather doubt that Ms Warren is the most likely, or even the best, pick. Besides, ticket wise, she’s a woman, and HRC’s got that one pretty well down. From Massacussetts, already bluish, certainly looks bluish. And if Sanders can’t or _won’t_ get the sulking progressives on board, why would we think she could? For my two bits, she’s better right where she is. > > Remember Theodore Roosevelt? How the Oink Lobby of New York urged him for the Vice President nomination to “kick him upstairs” and get him out of their hair? Some our current crop of greedfreaks are smart enough to see that VP Warren might be less of a pill than Sen. Warren. I agree, which is why I want her right where she is. > > Our financial and investment “industries” have become exciting. Which is appropriate, perhaps, for a casino. She thinks it should be dull, reliable, and solid. I think she’s right. And I’m not just saying that because she is so hot! She is, but that isn’t why! Yes, yes, and hell, yes, I want my Senator to stay right where she is and not be dead-ended into the veep slot. Fortunately, she’s smart enough and dedicated enough to see it that way too, I devoutly believe. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/58 "2016-06-28T11:15:15Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Yes, yes, and hell, yes, I want my Senator to stay right where she is and not be dead-ended into the veep slot. Fortunately, she’s smart enough and dedicated enough to see it that way too, I devoutly believe. I have the impression she’s trying out for the running mate position, and doing a good job of it at that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/59 "2016-06-28T14:23:18Z")
Coming back around: assuming this comes up at the debates, which way do we figure this goes? Is it more likely that Hillary takes a shot at Trump for not releasing his tax returns, at which point he presumably responds with some rehearsed quip about her speeches – or is it that he brings up her speeches, and she presumably responds with a rehearsed quip about his tax returns? (Or do we figure _neither_ will make the first move on their own initiative, since the reply is so obvious – such that, I dunno, it’s just going to come down to which one of them _happens_ to get specifically asked about it by the moderator du jour?) ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153/60 "2016-06-28T15:52:21Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Coming back around: assuming this comes up at the debates, which way do we figure this goes? Is it more likely that Hillary takes a shot at Trump for not releasing his tax returns, at which point he presumably responds with some rehearsed quip about her speeches – or is it that he brings up her speeches, and she presumably responds with a rehearsed quip about his tax returns? > > (Or do we figure _neither_ will make the first move on their own initiative, since the reply is so obvious – such that, I dunno, it’s just going to come down to which one of them _happens_ to get specifically asked about it by the moderator du jour?) I think she has to state things about his tax returns as facts. State that Trump paid little to no taxes over the years, has been much, much less successful that he claims and that he donated next to nothing to charity. If he denies that these are true, she just mentions that he can definitively prove that by releasing his tax returns. Until he does, we assume the worst. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donalds-secret-tax-returns-and-hillarys-secret-wall-st-speeches/758153.md?page=4)