# Done with my sons **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 30, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609 "2019-12-30T18:26:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Declanium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@Declanium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declanium)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/321 "2020-02-07T14:40:13Z")
Thank you, Elysian. I’m not a troll. And maybe that does make sense. I responded on the other thread too - the pit thread. I’ve always been very black/white on my thinking. So you either stay away from drugs or you’re in the other camp. And you don’t want your kids to be in the other camp. So now they have both been there. What do I do? Pray they stop? No. Get them therapy? Trying now. But ultimately I’m not in control of them. I’m very saddened that they both didn’t listen to me and at least delay their drug use. Because now they have trained their brains to need drugs to have fun. When I spoke to younger son about that, he refused that line of thinking and said he has fun doing other things too. Like soccer, or playing with the dog or even English class. But do I believe him? He’s the manipulative one taking. (According to the LCSW, he says things i maybe want to hear) so now I don’t believe much he says. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/322 "2020-02-07T14:45:38Z")
> [@Declanium](#): > > Because now they have trained their brains to need drugs to have fun. What led you to this conclusion? Many folks in this thread like me smoked in our teen years and then stopped. From 16-18 I smoked quite a bit of pot, barely touched it in college, and haven’t been even remotely tempted for over 30 years. ---
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/323 "2020-02-07T14:50:19Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > What led you to this conclusion? Many folks in this thread like me smoked in our teen years and then stopped. From 16-18 I smoked quite a bit of pot, barely touched it in college, and haven’t been even remotely tempted for over 30 years. Because that’s what she wants to happen. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/324 "2020-02-07T14:51:23Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > What led you to this conclusion? Many folks in this thread like me smoked in our teen years and then stopped. From 16-18 I smoked quite a bit of pot, barely touched it in college, and haven’t been even remotely tempted for over 30 years. Indeed. I smoke daily, and enjoy it. I take occasional tolerance breaks, during which I go without for a week or two. When I’m smoking daily I never remember any dreams, but during my t-breaks I experience vivid, amazing dreams. I really enjoy the dream thing, so my t-breaks are enjoyable. If tomorrow my gf asked me to stop using cannabis I would. I might resent her asking a bit, but I would stop if it made her happy. As it stands, she joins me in smoking maybe once a year. ---
**Author:** ![Declanium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@Declanium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declanium)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/325 "2020-02-07T14:58:02Z")
Since this happened, I’ve been doing a lot of research. THC does something to receptors in young brains accordingly to some research. If done to excess, it alters your brain receptors possibly affecting your ability to enjoy things deeply. People also have been known to lose their natural curiosity in favor of chemical curiosity ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/326 "2020-02-07T14:58:06Z")
You asked what I thought you had done to your sons. Grrr! gave a good answer. > [@Grrr](#): > > And just so we’re clear, no one is suggestion you shouldn’t punish your children for breaking house rules. Ground them, take their phones away… do what you got to do. But for fuck’s sake, don’t be emotionally abusive. I haven’t met your sons. I don’t know how invested they are in pot. “There’s a photo of a joint on his phone” is one of the oddest claims of proof I’ve ever seen, though. I like to take photographs. I have photos of grape and currant buds about to burst in the spring. I have photos of cool birthday cakes and this ridiculous deviled-egg holder I saw once. I have photos of a newly hatched winter moth caterpillar, and of my car’s flat tire. A photo of a joint means exactly nothing, except that he saw it and found it interesting in some way. And you already knew that, you know he’s smoking pot. Had their grades suffered before you caught them? Did they act stoned all the time? Did they drop off of teams? I get that you are furious with yourself for not seeing these signs, and are projecting that anger onto your sons. But it’s hard as parents to really see our children. Or maybe none of that happened, and the boys were doing fine until their mother exploded all over the kitchen table. In which case, your husband, who thinks things are okay and you are over-reacting, is likely in the right here. > [@Declanium](#): > > Well, you don’t know; nor does she. But she’s met him so… > Wish I could post in five years time to update but that’s not feasible. But a therapist telling me that there is an issue is guiding me in my decisions. **A parent can control, not advise.** And a teen growing into an adult has to suffer natural consequences in order to give up drugs. I don’t want to see the descent. Does any parent? It’s painful to sit on sideline to watch your child choose a substance over family. Over college. Over any potential to succeed and thrive in life. That seems exactly backwards if you are a parent of teens. Teens need to start making their own decisions. Sure, you control some of the physical aspects of their lives. You put supper on the table at 6:30 in the evening. But they chose whether they are there to eat it or not. I have two kids. The one who was a perfect teen still lives with us as a young adult, suffers from anxiety, and may never be able to support herself. The one who nearly burned down the house is now married and working full time and happy. He succeeded at the “separate from your parents” thing. > [@Declanium](#): > > If you do drugs (weed, coke, mushrooms, meth, heroin, oxy) I’m not going to have you in my life. > This is not that unusual really. > Have you ever watched Intervention? People take lots of mind-altering drugs. In addition to the ones you mention, there’s nicotine, alcohol, caffeine, theobromine, and others, taken with and without medical supervision. I’m nursing a cup of mind-altering tea as I type this. (caffeine, to be clear.) Yes, some drugs are much more dangerous in high concentrations. Coca tea is probably fairly safe. Where the stuff is grown it is common for high-status, successful people to drink it regularly. Whereas pure cocaine routinely messes people up. Yes, my friends who used pot in high school took the lower-dose stuff available then. But this: > [@Declanium](#): > > I’m concerned for their health and their futures. > It’s either me or the drugs. > Looks like they’ve chosen. sounds abusive to me. Now… I have to admit, my husband and his sister got their mom to stop smoking (tobacco) when they were kids by leaving the room whenever she lit up. The sister also did stuff like threading human hair through the cigarettes to make them taste nasty. But they didn’t withdraw their LOVE. They didn’t tell their mom she was a lost cause. Dynamics between children and parents aren’t symmetric, of course. But I think the similarities are relevant. > [@steronz](#): > > Have you considered beating the shit out of them? Maybe find some local gang-bangers and tell them your sons are moving in on their turf. Really bring those “natural consequences” home to roost. My husband also has a brother who struggled with drug addiction. And actually, this happened to him. When he started using stronger stuff (not just booze and weed, but meth) a couple of his friends beat the shit out of him, and told him that’s what meth would do to him, and he had to stop. And actually, he did. (He continued to use too much booze and some other stuff for a couple of decades, although he’s now clean.) I’m not recommending you beat your children. But I think that’s less abusive than letting them know that you have given up on them, you no longer love them, and you think they have no chance in life. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/327 "2020-02-07T15:19:44Z")
> [@Declanium](#): > > Since this happened, I’ve been doing a lot of research. > THC does something to receptors in young brains accordingly to some research. If done to excess, it alters your brain receptors possibly affecting your ability to enjoy things deeply. > People also have been known to lose their natural curiosity in favor of chemical curiosity First, that’s a lot of vague words (“something”, “according to some”, “excess”, “possibly”, “deeply”, “have been known”) that might mean something if used in context but without some citations for the research don’t amount to much. What research have you been reading? Second, the same can be said for any drug (alcohol, caffeine, nicotine) but you don’t seem to have the same objections to those. Would you care to expound on why that is? Third, you are ignoring all the evidence that supports that not only is marijuana usage relatively (not completely safe, you are right to be concerned at some level) benign for the majority of people who use it, including teens. ---
**Author:** ![wombattver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b77776/32.png) [@wombattver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wombattver)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/328 "2020-02-07T15:25:24Z")
You keep saying they made a choice and that drug use is a choice, which is true. However I urge you to also leave room for them to not just make a choice, but make a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/329 "2020-02-07T16:16:51Z")
> [@Declanium](#): > > Thank you, Elysian. > I’m not a troll. > And maybe that does make sense. > I responded on the other thread too - the pit thread. > I’ve always been very black/white on my thinking. > So you either stay away from drugs or you’re in the other camp. And you don’t want your kids to be in the other camp. > So now they have both been there. What do I do? > Pray they stop? No. Get them therapy? Trying now. > But ultimately I’m not in control of them. > I’m very saddened that they both didn’t listen to me and at least delay their drug use. > Because now they have trained their brains to need drugs to have fun. > When I spoke to younger son about that, he refused that line of thinking and said he has fun doing other things too. Like soccer, or playing with the dog or even English class. But do I believe him? He’s the manipulative one taking. (According to the LCSW, he says things i maybe want to hear) so now I don’t believe much he says. My mother is a very black and white thinker. You know what that makes her? Unhappy. So try to conceive that people aren’t in two camps, one good and one bad. It’s just a lot of people milling around, some who have done certain things, some who haven’t. I’ve never gone skydiving, you know, but I wouldn’t put myself in a non-skydiving camp and feel like I’m the good person and those skydiving people are bad. And I wouldn’t think those skydiving people were besmirched forever. I don’t believe that smoking pot changes your brain significantly. Not unless you are high for years, and even then: My mother had a stroke twelve years ago. It changed her brain _significantly_. Her personality is a lot different. SHE IS STILL MY MUM. As for no longer having fun, if your son is able to have a lovely postcard Christmas with you, then there’s no way he’s trained his brain to only have fun smoking pot. He also likes to watch Christmas movies. And a milder form of “having fun” I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Declanium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@Declanium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declanium)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/330 "2020-02-07T16:29:55Z")
You seem well-adjusted, Elysian. Other than that one time trying a toke off a joint at a party, have you done drugs? ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/331 "2020-02-07T16:36:56Z")
> [@Declanium](#): > > You seem well-adjusted, Elysian. > Other than that one time trying a toke off a joint at a party, have you done drugs? Eh, not really. I did smoke pot really sporadically for six years, sometimes going quite a few months or almost a year in between. But then when I was 20 I decided I really didn’t like the way it made me feel so I just stopped altogether. And that was fine too. And now I don’t drink alcohol or even caffeine, so I guess you could say I am entirely drug free. Right now I’m high off herbal tea - and by herbs I mean cinnamon and cloves. 🆒 Although I am on ibuprofen at the moment for a bad back. Thank goodness for ibuprofen. (As an aside, one of my cousins is self-medicating all of her illnesses with CBT and marijuana, poor thing. She says it helps, and if she feels better then I guess it’s worth it.) ---
**Author:** ![Declanium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@Declanium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declanium)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/332 "2020-02-07T16:54:20Z")
I hope my kids eventually tire of it as well ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/333 "2020-02-07T17:00:53Z")
I think the real problem is that **Declanium** created her own fantasy world of an ideal and perfect family. Her fantasy has been permanently shattered, and that’s what she can’t forgive. > [@Declanium](#): > > I quit my career to stay at home and gave them all I could. Reading books, crafts, all that. … > > I’m the one who bakes cookies, plans parties for their accomplishments etc and so forth. … > > We had spent Xmas eve together, baking cookies, drinking cocoa and watching Christmas movies. … > > Family vacations, get together with relatives. Sleepovers and pancake breakfasts… These boys are 15 and 17, right? Not 8 and 10? :rolleyes: > [@Declanium](#): > > I have no one in my area with similar experience. Everyone is going on about how great their kids are…smart, motivated, responsible and trustworthy. No drug experience at all. Isolated here. Sure, because what people put on Facebook is always completely true and accurate, and totally reflects reality. And now your sons have betrayed you by not conforming to your concept of perfection! Now you can never boast to people again about what a perfect family you’ve created. It’s a terrible, unforgivable thing they have done to you! > [@Declanium](#): > > We still do what we’ve done - spending time watching Super Bowl, soccer tournaments etc. > and still say “love you” each time we leave the house or say good night. Even Disney would find this family too sickly-sweet and cloying. And now it turns out that all that cloying sweetness wasn’t even real! Those no-good sons of hers had lives of their own all the time! **Declanium’s** extreme attitude towards drugs, that once they are ‘in your system’ they can never be eradicated, and your life is permanently ruined, is displacement. Her real pain and anger is about the fact that her own idealized fantasy world has been destroyed and she can never regain it. She needs wake up and realize that children are not dolls that you can possess and play little fantasy games with. ---
**Author:** ![Declanium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@Declanium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declanium)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/334 "2020-02-07T17:11:33Z")
We have established this, Greenwyvern. I will never be truly happy again. Still worried about my kids being drug addicts tho. Valid concern. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/335 "2020-02-07T18:06:34Z")
> [@Declanium](#): > > I will never be truly happy again. That’s entirely your choice. ---
**Author:** ![Declanium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@Declanium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declanium)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/336 "2020-02-07T18:21:30Z")
Telemark, are you a parent? Ever hear of the expression that you’re only as happy as your most unhappy child? Well, now see your kids, possibly both of them, as drug addicts. Are you truly happy then? Or at all? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/337 "2020-02-07T18:24:41Z")
> [@Declanium](#): > > Well, now see your kids, possibly both of them, as drug addicts. You’re choosing to see them that way, when the evidence you’ve presented here shows nothing of the kind. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/338 "2020-02-07T19:00:18Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > You’re choosing to see them that way, when the evidence you’ve presented here shows nothing of the kind. On thing that might help is just to see it as more of a continuum. Non-user Former user. Light user Heavy user Problem user Addict Last year at this time, your kids were in category #1. Now they’re in #3 or #4. It doesn’t _sound_ as if they’ve reached “problem user,” because then you really would have noticed before. But assume they are. That’s most of the way to addict in a relatively short time. But pot is not heroin, and even heroin addicts can get clean. So it’s not a one-way street. **It’s not a one-way street.** Practically speaking, I think you have two choices as a parent: 1. Push really hard towards getting them back into “former user.” They will push back with the energy of their youth, their need for rebellion (not all teens have this, but most do), their friends’ opinions… this is a battle you will lose, or, at best, win temporarily. But at the cost of your relationship. Loads of people in this thread have said that, and I think you should listen. Meanwhile, their pot use will become a significant weapon in their fight with you, and will escalate. 2. Push really hard towards “light user,” and work the health and moderation angle. Lose the battle, as gracefully as possible, but hold the “not in my house” line to keep your integrity, and win the war. They may remain “light users” or move to “former users” on their own, but they’re a lot less likely to escalate to problem users or addicts. With all the sympathy in the world, what you did before didn’t work in keeping them away from the stuff. Perhaps your techniques are not as effective with your sons as they might be with different people. You have to raise the kids you’ve got. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/339 "2020-02-07T19:57:39Z")
> [@Declanium](#): > > I hope my kids eventually tire of it as well I was going to give up posting about this because I’d concluded that no matter what anyone said Declanium was going to twist it around to support a pre-conceived and nonsensical idea that anyone who ever used marijuana was DOOMED. But maybe there’s been just a bit of progress, if there’s recognition that it’s possible for people to stop. > [@Declanium](#): > > We have established this, Greenwyvern. > I will never be truly happy again. Even moving from ‘the kids are DOOMED’ to ‘Declanium is DOOMED’ might be progress. At least it might be locating the worst of the problem in the right person; which might make it possible to do something about it. > [@Declanium](#): > > Telemark, are you a parent? > Ever hear of the expression that you’re only as happy as your most unhappy child? > Well, now see your kids, possibly both of them, as drug addicts. > Are you truly happy then? Or at all? Or then again, maybe there hasn’t been any progress at all. Declanium still thinks at least one of the kids is DOOMED. If you cut your kids out of your affection, Declanium, you’re drastically increasing, not decreasing, the chances that your kids will be seriously damaged. Tell the kids if you catch them smoking they’ll be grounded, or have to do all the housecleaning for a month, or whatever (within reason) you ordinarily use to discourage bad behavior. Read the one a long boring lecture on being responsible with money, and if you’ve been giving him money for anything his own money could reasonably go for – buying him clothes, movies, etc. --, then tell him you’re going to stop doing that, at least for x months, so he’ll have to spend what he earns more responsibly; or will at least get a better idea of the consequences of reckless spending. (Put what you’re not spending in a savings account for him.) Maybe they’ll quit marijuana. Maybe they’ll even quit now, as opposed to a few years down the road; maybe they’ll just keep their stash and use it someplace else, and learn to hide the smell. That part’s not in your control. But no, for the three thousand ninety seventh time, they are not automatically DOOMED. They’re not automatically doomed if you hate them forever, either; or even if you blame them forever for your own unhappiness. But it sure makes their chances worse. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609/340 "2020-02-07T20:31:41Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > **Grrr!** is a he. > > Also, I didn’t “have” to do anything. I’m proud of my son and am quite happy to share it with you. My motivations for starting that thread were because I find your tactics quite pit-worthy, as do others in that thread. I thought you were a Grrrl too, don’t take offense though, I may forget. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/done-with-my-sons/845609.md?page=18)