Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT) - Obama's failure in leadership

[Northern_Piper]

@jtgain

Congress and the Courts have no business overseeing the military. The only exception is that Congress can decide through appropriation how big the military is, and it has the power to declare when we go to war. Other than that, the President needs to be in charge.

Curiously, the drafters of the Constitution, disagree with you:

@Article I

Section 8: The Congress shall have power
…
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

Since they had just come through an armed revolution, it’s pretty clear that they thought it was important to give the legislative branch the power to regulate the military, rather then just give all power over the military to a single executive branch. They had studied their history, and were concerned that giving one man sole control over the military was a recipe for a tyrant to emerge.

[Bricker]

@jtgain

But I don’t want to start the precedent that military matters are open to matters of social policy and justice that could potentially undermine their readiness in the future.

wasn’t that precedent set by President Truman in 1948?

[Ludovic]

@Captain_Midnight

Greeks used to fuck each other in the ass and eat their own execrement before going into battle.

So you say accept eating poo poo?

[Der_Trihs]

@Bricker

@jtgain

But I don’t want to start the precedent that military matters are open to matters of social policy and justice that could potentially undermine their readiness in the future.

wasn’t that precedent set by President Truman in 1948?

And besides that there was the well publicized problem of people with uncommon, important skills like speaking Arabic being dismissed for being homosexual. That hardly helps readiness.

And there is also the fact that the military is already being interfered with for political reasons by the anti-gay people; just as it was already politicized by the segregationists who used the same arguments in favor of keeping the military segregated. Why is politicizing the military only bad for readiness when it’s the good guys doing it?

[Bricker]

@Der_Trihs

@Bricker

wasn’t that precedent set by President Truman in 1948?

And besides that there was the well publicized problem of people with uncommon, important skills like speaking Arabic being dismissed for being homosexual. That hardly helps readiness.

And there is also the fact that the military is already being interfered with for political reasons by the anti-gay people; just as it was already politicized by the segregationists who used the same arguments in favor of keeping the military segregated. Why is politicizing the military only bad for readiness when it’s the good guys doing it?

Sure.

But let’s be honest: there’s a time for things, and determining that time is not a matter of laserlike precision.

Had President Truman chosen to include gays in his 1948 order, I don’t think any serious commentator believes that it would have worked. By the same token, if President Theodore Roosevelt had order racial integration of the armed forces, it would not have gone well.

By 1948, the nation was ready, reluctantly perhaps, but ready for racial integration. In 2010, we are ready, and I think even less reluctantly, for integration of gays. I acknowledge this is a judgment call call.

[Marley23]

@Captain_Midnight

Although Obama is a Marxist, possible illegal alien, Muslim, fartknocker and Zebra, gay he isn’t. He seems to prefer African American women with big butts. You know, if the brass in the Pentagon could bar big assed African American women from their ranks, they would. In a minute. The biography of big assed African American war heroes is a very thin read. Gays. Now they have been everywhere. Fought every war in history. Where would humanity be without the cross dressing spies, or the wonderful cooks, or the quartermaster who always had a large jar of lube for those “special moments”.

What have we learned from Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. Simple. They don’t ask. The soldier doesn’t tell. Heterosexuals do not have to announce to the world that they like the opposite sex. No parades down Main Street. Most of us do out jobs and go home. Genitalia has no basis in fact. There are no atheists in foxholes!

Support the troops, send them home from Afghanistan and Iraq. Bunch of sodomites over there anyway!

I don’t like to give warnings for old posts, but this is ridiculous. Captain Midnight, the SDMB has rules against being a jerk. Don’t do this again.

[jackdavinci]

I voted for Obama, and even kind of still like him. But I have to agree, he’s shown absolutely no leadership on this. Granted, he may have political or possibly even strategical reasons for standing in background. But it’s not like the issue hasn’t come up at least twice during his term. And neither time did he take any meaningful action. Even though the news was spinning it a something that was inevitable. And yet, no movement. And apart from that he has remained silent. It seems pretty clear he’s picking his battles, and this just isn’t one of them.

[jackdavinci]

@BrightNShiny

There’s plenty of wiggle room in the DADT law

LOL for some reason I parsed that as “Defense Against the Dark Arts” at first.

As cheesy as it was, for numerous reasons, and even though it’s shower scenes were undoubtedly filmed for their T&A and not for any social enlightenment, I still feel like the end result of Starship Troopers was that any integration of troops was inevitable and survivable. If you ask the troops to serve with an alternate race, an alternate gender, an d alternate sexuality, they will fucking get over it. Dude, there are much more important things to deal with in war. Give them some fucking credit already.

I find it amusing that “you” think women are too delicate for military situations, which means men must be the stoic ones, and yet, then “you” claim men are too delicate to deal with men who find other men attractive. So your burly men have stereotypical (by “your” standards anyway) feminine qualities.

But I have faith. Surely our troops can “man up” and show that their arbitrary fears are not stronger than their fears of like, things exploding…

[boytyperanma]

@jackdavinci

But I have faith. Surely our troops can “man up” and show that their arbitrary fears are not stronger than their fears of like, things exploding…

It isn’t even the troops that have an issue. A majority of the military are 18-25 year old’s who have grown up in a society much more accepting of gays. It simply isn’t fair to accuse them of being the ones expressing the fears or needing to man up. DADT remaining is the product of old men in suits refusing to accept the military has changed from when they were among the ‘troops’ and a failure of leadership on the side of people to oppose those obsolete men.