# Don't ask don't tell **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 15, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-ask-dont-tell/513850 "2009-10-15T00:18:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-ask-dont-tell/513850/21 "2009-10-16T15:29:31Z")
> [@qazwart](#): > > I can’t remember the book, but I remember reading that Gays in the 1970s and 1980s were saying that _They were friends of Dorothy_. The military decided if they could find this Dorothy person, they’d be able to find all the gays in the military. > > A lot of money was put into this investigation, but I don’t remember if they did find Dorothy. This sounds suspiciously like an urban legend. Unless you have a cite handy? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-ask-dont-tell/513850/22 "2009-10-16T15:47:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This sounds suspiciously like an urban legend. Unless you have a cite handy?n Randy Shilts, “Conduct Unbecoming: A History of Gays and Lesbians in the US Military”: > [@](#): > > Dahl told a reporter that there were many gays serving at [Great Lakes Naval Station], which spurred the Navy to launch a purge of what they presumed to be a massive network of homosexuals at Great Lakes. In the course of their investigation, NIS agents made a startling discovery-that homosexuals sometimes referred to themselves as “friends of Dorothy.” This code term had originated in the 1940s and 1950s and referred to Judy Garland’s character in the film _The Wizard of Oz_. Ever since, gay men had identified themselves as “friends of Dorothy.” The NIS, however, did not know the phrase’s history and so believed that a woman named Dorothy was the hub of an enormous ring of military homosexuals in the Chicago area. The NIS prepared to hunt Dorothy down and convince her to give them the names of homosexuals. > > In gay bars known to attract military personnel, Dahl learned that NIS agents were asking pointed questions about someone named Dorothy. When one unfortunate sailor acknowledged he was gay in order to get out of the Navy, NIS agents sat him down and told him that they knew all about Dorothy. What they wanted to know from him was how to find her. The sailor, who was too young to know the code, was baffled. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-ask-dont-tell/513850/23 "2009-10-16T23:24:32Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I always thought of the policy as a “get out of jail free” card. Of course, it might not seem like that if you joined because you weren’t qualified for anything, but I keep reading about dozens, or even hundreds of desparately needed interpreters and translators being tossed for being gay and I have assumed (with no evidence, to be sure) that they have decided that there are better things to do in this life than avoiding IEDs in Iraq or Afghanistan. Correct me if I am wrong. Well, certainly the case of [Dan Choi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Choi) doesn’t fit that assumption. West Point grad, Arabic translator. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-ask-dont-tell/513850/24 "2009-10-16T23:55:16Z")
Neither does the case of [Bleu Copas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleu_Copas), or [Stephen Benjamin](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/08/opinion/08benjamin.html) or [Cathleen Glover and Alistair Gamble](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A29683-2003Dec2?language=printer). ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-ask-dont-tell/513850/25 "2009-10-17T15:45:13Z")
Thanks for the link on Benjamin, **Cappy.** It was a good read. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-ask-dont-tell/513850/26 "2009-10-18T10:04:31Z")
Nor does the case of [Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, USAF](http://www.military.com/news/article/af-boots-decorated-pilot-for-being-gay.html?col=1186032310810), who opposed his discharge and was kicked out, two years shy of the 20 year mark where he could have retired with full benefits. He doesn’t appear to have had any fears about being in combat: > [@](#): > > Fehrenbach said he has nine Air Medals, including one for valor for assaulting an Iraqi ambush position while under heavy anti-aircraft fire during the first days of the invasion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-ask-dont-tell/513850.md?page=1)