# "Don't call me 'cisgender'!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903 "2015-04-30T15:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/201 "2015-05-02T00:05:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It is commonly used as one now. Let’s take a minute to look at some of these “cites,” shall we? > [@](#): > > [Talk:Cisgender - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ACisgender) This is a discussion page for editing the Wiki entry on “cisgender” to include a section on its use as a slur. Note that this section does not appear in the actual entry for “cisgender.” Which means it’s an argument that’s too unsupportable _even for Wikipedia_. > [@](#): > > [http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/10/cissie-and-malcontents/](http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/10/cissie-and-malcontents/) This is a blog post responding to someone who personally does not like the term “cisgender.” The original complaint makes mostly the same arguments made in this thread. Notably missing from the complaint is any indication that anyone has ever used the term as a deliberate slur. It’s mostly “insulting” because the person writing the complaint has not agreed to be defined by the term. > [@](#): > > [http://americablog.com/2011/11/dan-savage-glitter-bombed-again.html](http://americablog.com/2011/11/dan-savage-glitter-bombed-again.html) Another blog, this one asserting that… well, _something_ is a slur, but the author kind of forgets to point out what word he’s talking about. “Cis” is a reasonable assumption, but he doesn’t provide any evidence that it’s a slur, and the usage he’s referring to is completely neutral. > [@](#): > > [Urban Dictionary: cisgender](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cisgender) > > _cisgender > A derogatory term used by members of the trans community to refer to all the disgusting people in this world who don’t hate their genitalia. > Yeah, what did you expect from hetero cisgender shit like that?_ Really? _Urban fucking Dictionary_? And an entry that’s clearly written by someone with an ax to grind with transexuals in general, no less. > [@](#): > > [Die Cis Scum | Know Your Meme](http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/die-cis-scum) > _Die Cis Scum” is catch phrase used by some members of the transgender community in protest of the oppression they feel by people who identify as cisgendered, or those whose identities match the sex they were assigned at birth. The phrase is a response to the death threats commonly received by members of the transgender community.[8] Additionally, in certain social justice blogging circles, the term cis has become as a negative slur[9] towards those who question or dislike the choices of people who identify with non-standard gender practices._ Oh, man, this is _so close_ to an actual cite! Unfortunately, it’s still a failure, because you need to show that the word itself is a slur, not that it can be used to construct sentences that are slurs. Also, the footnote for the term being a “negative slur” goes to another blog post, addressed directly to the guy who wrote your third cite. So, the “blogging circles” where it’s become a negative slur apparently consist of cisgendered people with a chip on their shoulder about the term, and not, as your cite misleadingly implies, among actual transsexuals. > [@](#): > > [Will 'Cisgender' Survive? - The Atlantic](http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/09/cisgenders-linguistic-uphill-battle/380342/) > \*It’s clear that some gay men and lesbians see “cisgender” as a slur,… \* Hey, The Atantic! You finally found something that’s not open source or a blog post! Of course, to get to the bit you quoted, you have to read through nearly the entire article to get to a throw away comment about a poll taken on HuffPo about how cisgendered gays and lesbians react to the term - and even then, the reaction does not appear to have been anything like unanimous. (The link in the article goes to a search result from the HuffPo archives, not to the poll itself, so I don’t know what they actually found.) Frankly, I didn’t think you could come up with a more pathetic cite than the google search you initially posted. But I should have had more faith. At least the Google cite had an actual instance of a trans person using “cis” in an insulting manner. Although, again, as part of a sentence (“Die, cis scum,” apparently the originator of the term), not as an independent slur in and of itself. Claiming that this is evidence that “cis” is a slur makes about as much sense as saying that “black” is a slur because some guy once said, “Fuck those black people.” ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/202 "2015-05-02T00:35:02Z")
I want to thank everybody for their participation in this thread. I am one of those that has always found “cisgendered” to be an annoying and unnecessary term, but I have been convinced of its usefulness. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/203 "2015-05-02T00:39:21Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Using your logic and research techniques, [we should also ban the word Jew.](https://www.google.com/search?q=jew+them+down&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8) Miller, Dr Deth was being sarcastic, wasn’t he? It sure sounded like he was taking the piss. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/204 "2015-05-02T01:23:47Z")
You have an enviable optimism. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/205 "2015-05-02T01:48:18Z")
Anyone else remember the term “Breeder”? It is/was a derogatory term for heterosexuals back in the 70’s-80’s. Yes, this “if we have to use a prefix, everybody has to” “cis” does smell a bit like “breeder”. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/206 "2015-05-02T02:00:52Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Anyone else remember the term “Breeder”? > > It is/was a derogatory term for heterosexuals back in the 70’s-80’s. > > Yes, this “if we have to use a prefix, everybody has to” “cis” does smell a bit like “breeder”. I’m going to use a prefix when it makes sense to do so. I’m going to call myself cisgendered if the circumstances warrant. I think it’s really funny on a board with so much pedantry that people are objecting to and refusing a word that is more specific and more technical. It’s like the objections aren’t really about the usefulness of the word but about it infringing on some right to be the default. Which reminds me of the people who are offended if they have to press 1 for English, because they shouldn’t have to press anything. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/207 "2015-05-02T02:04:39Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Anyone else remember the term “Breeder”? > > It is/was a derogatory term for heterosexuals back in the 70’s-80’s. > > Yes, this “if we have to use a prefix, everybody has to” “cis” does smell a bit like “breeder”. Breeder is obviously derogatory. Cis is completely and obviously neutral. Why on earth would you link the two terms? Do they “smell” gay to you? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/208 "2015-05-02T02:06:23Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Anyone else remember the term “Breeder”? > > It is/was a derogatory term for heterosexuals back in the 70’s-80’s. > > Yes, this “if we have to use a prefix, everybody has to” “cis” does smell a bit like “breeder”. But…its not like that. Nobody is using this term outside of very specific discussions where that degree of precision is useful. And nobody is pressuring anyone else to use it. It really is a useful word. Nothing more to It than that. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/209 "2015-05-02T02:07:55Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Yes, this “if we have to use a prefix, everybody has to” “cis” does smell a bit like “breeder”. It could hardly be more different. The term “breeder” was obviously chosen for its dehumanizing connotations and, given that the word “heterosexual” already existed, served no function other than as a term of contempt. “Cisgender” is simply a logical partner to the term “transgender,” and fills a gap in the language. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/210 "2015-05-02T02:22:29Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > Yes, it’s a pretty ugly word, because the the cis– prefix is obscure and the medical condition known as a cyst is revolting, widely-known and a near homophone. For better or worse, the word is intrinsically associated with something considered bad. This is so abnormal that I was pretty sure you were making a joke post. Only your subsequent post lead me to believe you are serious. There is no reason to associate cis- with cysts, and, even if you do, cyst is not all that dirty of a word. You call someone a cyst, they’d mostly be confused. If there’s going to be any homophonic association, it’s going to be with the word “sis”, short for sister. You don’t get to just make up reasons why a word could be offensive. It actually has to have a history of being used in an offensive way. Seeing as it’s the current term in gender and sexual studies, cisgender cannot qualify, anymore than transgender or homosexual can be called offensive. > [@CurtC](#): > > Miller, Dr Deth was being sarcastic, wasn’t he? It sure sounded like he was taking the piss. I assumed the same of **Joker** , but that turned out to be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/211 "2015-05-02T02:39:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It is commonly used as one now. > > [Talk:Cisgender - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ACisgender) > > [http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/10/cissie-and-malcontents/](http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/10/cissie-and-malcontents/) > > [http://americablog.com/2011/11/dan-savage-glitter-bombed-again.html](http://americablog.com/2011/11/dan-savage-glitter-bombed-again.html) > > [Urban Dictionary: cisgender](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cisgender) > > \*cisgender > > A derogatory term used by members of the trans community to refer to all the disgusting people in this world who don’t hate their genitalia. > > Yeah, what did you expect from hetero cisgender shit like that?\* > > [Die Cis Scum | Know Your Meme](http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/die-cis-scum) > > _Die Cis Scum” is catch phrase used by some members of the transgender community in protest of the oppression they feel by people who identify as cisgendered, or those whose identities match the sex they were assigned at birth. The phrase is a response to the death threats commonly received by members of the transgender community.[8] Additionally, in certain social justice blogging circles, the term cis has become as a negative slur[9] towards those who question or dislike the choices of people who identify with non-standard gender practices._ > > [Will 'Cisgender' Survive? - The Atlantic](http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/09/cisgenders-linguistic-uphill-battle/380342/) > > \*It’s clear that some gay men and lesbians see “cisgender” as a slur,… \* So if they made up cisgender to describe us can we make up a word to describe them? I nominate disgender. Example: Bob is disgender bit I’m cisgender. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/212 "2015-05-02T02:52:19Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > So if they made up cisgender to describe us can we make up a word to describe them? This would be hilarious if it weren’t so sad. Okay, it’s both hilarious and sad. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/213 "2015-05-02T03:11:15Z")
Jesus, **Rick**. Way to read the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/214 "2015-05-02T04:07:12Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Bullshit. Here are the full definitions: > > 1. perpendicular; especially : perpendicular to a tangent at a point of tangency > 2a. according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle > 2b. conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern > 2. occurring naturally > > Where is the value judgment in any of those things? Call your mother and tell her she deviates from rules or principles and she doesn’t occur naturally, see how she takes it. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > “unless you use the word which I dictate is acceptable then of course you must be aching to use a term that I consider derogatory so hey…draw your own conclusions people.” Whatever term you use to mean “people who are not transgender” – “cisgender”, “not transgender”, “common”, “normal”, “natural” – you are saying people who are transgender are not that. Would you argue otherwise? And how would you (or anyone who doesn’t think the word shoud ever be used in any context) finish this sentence: “We need a word describing people who are transgender, but we don’t need one describing people who aren’t, because people who aren’t transgender are \_\_\_\_\_”? > [@](#): > > It is quite possible to avoid and dislike using “cisgender” without having any other agenda at all. It may come as a shock to you but I’m still able to use other words in a non-discriminatory and thoughtful manner. Depends on the words. You can’t say some people are “natural”, perhaps, and other people are not without saying something derogatory about the latter group. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/215 "2015-05-02T04:41:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Let’s take a minute to look at some of these “cites,” shall we? It doesnt make any difference. If even a few people use “cis” as a pejorative slur, and only a few people think being called one is insulting, then we shouldn’t use it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/216 "2015-05-02T04:45:52Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Nobody is using this term outside of very specific discussions where that degree of precision is useful. Google '_die cis scum"_ sometimes. People _are_ using it like a slur and that _is_ way outside “very specific discussions where that degree of precision is useful”. I accept that the term originated that way, and I am very sorry it has been hijacked by haters- but it has been. Sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting “LALALA I CAN HEAR YOU” isnt helping. The word has been hijacked. It is now sometimes used as a pejorative slur. Do we use “Negroid” anymore? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/217 "2015-05-02T04:52:25Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > Breeder is obviously derogatory. Cis is completely and obviously neutral. It _was_ neutral. It’s been hijacked by haters & bigots. Sorry. I agree the term was useful, and that “normal” is not always acceptable, and so fine- come up with another term that’s not been hijacked by bigots. Look at it this way. If you called a person of XXXX sexual orientation/race/creed/religion by term YYYYY, and that person said “Sorry, I prefer you not use that term, it’s been used by too many bigots.” would you keep doing so just because YYYY is _useful to you_? :dubious: How does that excuse it? _I_ prefer not be be called “cisgender”- it’s been used by too many bigots. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/218 "2015-05-02T05:13:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It doesnt make any difference. If even a few people use “cis” as a pejorative slur, and only a few people think being called one is insulting, then we shouldn’t use it. So then we shouldn’t be using “Jew,” either, right? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/219 "2015-05-02T05:17:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It doesnt make any difference. If even a few people use “cis” as a pejorative slur, and only a few people think being called one is insulting, then we shouldn’t use it. It does make a difference, because not a single one of your “cites” showed someone using “cis” or “cisgendered” as a pejorative. Also, that’s an absolutely fucking asinine standard for judging the acceptableness of a word or phrase. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/220 "2015-05-02T05:22:01Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It does make a difference, because not a single one of your “cites” showed someone using “cis” or “cisgendered” as a pejorative. So “die nigger scum” is OK? Just because of the 'die … scum"? Would you not say “Die Nigger scum” are the words of a racist? In any case, the Atlantic article had people admitting they used “cis” as a pejorative. It’s a pejorative. Why are you in denial about this? Why not simply stop using a term used by haters and bigots? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903.md?page=12)