# "Don't call me 'cisgender'!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903 "2015-04-30T15:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/221 "2015-05-02T05:24:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Also, that’s an absolutely fucking asinine standard for judging the acceptableness of a word or phrase. What _is_ the “standard” then? I have heard this time and again- _only the person who the term is being used against can say whether or not it’s hateful-_ \*\*the person using it doesnt get that vote. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/222 "2015-05-02T05:30:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So “die nigger scum” is OK? Just because of the 'die … scum"? Would you not say “Die Nigger scum” are the words of a racist? No, die nigger scum is not okay. Neither is die black scum. The fact that you can plug either term into the sentence does not make the two terms semantically equivalent. > [@](#): > > In any case, the Atlantic article had people admitting they used “cis” as a pejorative. What are you talking about? There was no such admission in that article. > [@](#): > > It’s a pejorative. Why are you in denial about this? Why not simply stop using a term used by haters and bigots? …because I’m rational? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/223 "2015-05-02T05:32:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What _is_ the “standard” then? > > I have heard this time and again- _only the person who the term is being used against can say whether or not it’s hateful-_ \*\*the person using it doesnt get that vote. \*\* Ok then- who gets to decide? You or the person who doesn’t like that term being applied to them? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/224 "2015-05-02T05:43:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You have an enviable optimism. Holy shit. I think I’ll go have another beer. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/225 "2015-05-02T11:10:21Z")
I have to assume that DrDeth is upset because someone, somewhere, told him that tranny is offensive and he shouldn’t use it. This just isn’t honest and genuine argumentation. ---
**Author:** ![BrianJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@BrianJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrianJ)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/226 "2015-05-02T11:54:13Z")
I don’t have any problem with the word. That said, the only time I’ve seen it used outside this message board is on another message board, by someone who was telling someone else their opinion doesn’t matter because they are a ‘cis-gendered white male’ On the subject of ‘normal’ the way I look at it is ‘normal’ is relative. From a strictly biological perspective, the vast majority of what we humans do is not normal. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/227 "2015-05-02T12:34:30Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > And how would you (or anyone who doesn’t think the word shoud ever be used in any context) finish this sentence: “We need a word describing people who are transgender, but we don’t need one describing people who aren’t, because people who aren’t transgender are \_\_\_\_\_”? Normal. It’s a perfectly useful and accurate word. Transgendered people are not of the norm. The same way albinoism is not normal. People are losing their freakin’ minds. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/228 "2015-05-02T12:45:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Normal. > > It’s a perfectly useful and accurate word. Transgendered people are not of the norm. The same way albinoism is not normal. > > People are losing their freakin’ minds. By this measure, Native Americans are not normal. “Normal” carries a moral connotation, especially in matters of sexuality and psychology, whether one likes it or not. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/229 "2015-05-02T13:22:20Z")
I really like the term “cis gender”. I think they’d because the first time I saw it, I remembered my organic chemist course, and figured out both the meaning and the etymology, and that made me feel smart. 😉 > [@Miller](#): > > Most people don’t spend a lot of time talking about transexuality. True, but “cis” only comes up in those contexts, in my experience. > [@brickbacon](#): > > … > > 1. Cisgendered is not a common term, and is going to confuse more people than it helps. It’s clinical and largely not that helpful. > > … new words gotta come from somewhere. And since a lot of trans issues have been in the news, lately, it’s handy to have words to describe the players. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Personally I’ve never heard the word until yesterday and now it appears to be popping up all over the place, being worn on the sleeve by many who seem to using it as some kind of bogus litmus-test. > I suspect it is being dangled out there by some in order to manufacture an opportunity to cry “bigot” when others object. I say bullshit to that… As a cis woman, I have mostly heard it used simply and descriptively, and I’m fine being called that. > [@Slash1972](#): > > Know what else is a handy little word that precisely describes a male who is not transgendered? Male. ER, … > [@Kimstu](#): > > No, but when such a word actually gets coined and becomes widely used, that generally indicates that many people find it useful. > > Being on Team Neology and all, I’m a bit sad that the coinage and dissemination of new words seems to irritate people so much. I thought we were having such fun ☹ > > Anyway, it’s not like we’re stuck keeping the new words around forever and looking after them if it turns out we don’t need them after all. They’ll just die a natural death and decompose back into phonemes to nourish the rest of language. 🙂 I think I love you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/230 "2015-05-02T14:13:15Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Normal. > > It’s a perfectly useful and accurate word. Transgendered people are not of the norm. The same way albinoism is not normal. > > People are losing their freakin’ minds. “Normal” is an accurate word for you to use, inasmuch as it conveys both the denotation and connotation you intend; it helps the audience understand your particular unsavory attitude toward transgendered people. It is not, however, **precise**. If you describe someone as “normal,” I don’t know whether you’re trying to say that they’re white, or straight, or religious, or meat-eating, or what. If you said “cisgender,” the word would be a little less accurate for you, inasmuch as it wouldn’t carry the unpleasant connotations you’d like it to carry, but it’d be far more precise. For folks who don’t want those ugly connotations, “cisgender” is both more accurate and more precise than “normal.” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/231 "2015-05-02T14:19:29Z")
> [@BrianJ](#): > > I don’t have any problem with the word. > > That said, the only time I’ve seen it used outside this message board is on another message board, by someone who was telling someone else their opinion doesn’t matter because they are a ‘cis-gendered white male’ > On the subject of ‘normal’ the way I look at it is ‘normal’ is relative. From a strictly biological perspective, the vast majority of what we humans do is not normal. I’ve run into about half a dozen trans people in the last few years, one of whom is a close friend who recently came out, and is still struggling with his issues around the subject. So I’ve perhaps had more occasion to use the word than most people. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/232 "2015-05-02T14:52:24Z")
> [@JR\_Brown](#): > > Why yes, thank you for noticing. YVW. > [@JR\_Brown](#): > > The post you quote was responding to someone who was of the opinion that using “cis” as the opposite of “trans” was based on some super-obscure knowledge of Latin that no-one except “a few people with wide interests in historical topics” would recognize. When in fact cis is used as the opposite of trans in widely-known contexts in which many educated people, and in particular those with medical or psychiatric degrees, would be expected to become familiar with them. Non-responsive. I estimated that only 1-10% of the population would recall encountering “cis”, and I think the 10% is probably way too generous. > [@JR\_Brown](#): > > I have no idea if cis/trans is used in geology. But if you didn’t encounter them in chemistry or biology, either you missed a couple of lectures or your courses didn’t cover chemical structure or genetics, respectively. Which are topics I would expect a reasonably good high school to cover. Ahhh… You “would expect”. Love that deftly expressed skepticism. You went to MIT and Harvard? I went to an elite prep school near you. I expect you literally brushed elbows with many graduates while you were in Cambridge. FYI my HS class (of less than 50 graduates) produced 3 MDs and 2 scientific PhDs (engineering, chemistry) that I know of. Plus another PhD in English Lit. Sadly I was nowhere near that level as a science student. On the other hand I did wrangle 4s in the AP European History and AP English Lit exams, and a Phi Beta Kappa in college, so maybe I did have some brains after all, even though I ranked within a place or so of academic last in my “reasonably good” HS class. And oh, skipping class, not paying attention in class, and failing to at least try to do the homework was absolutely unheard of at this “reasonably good” HS of mine. It would have been viewed as disgraceful not only by the faculty but also by your fellow students, an attitude which our public schools could certainly use a heavy dose of! Anyway, if I did see “cis” after all, I have forgotten it in the intervening decades. > [@JR\_Brown](#): > > Actually, some researchers investigating the biological origins of sexual attraction classify sexual orientation as gynephilia (attraction to women) and androphilia (attraction to men) rather than gay/straight, on the grounds that the former system seems to more closely match the way attraction is programmed biologically. If gay/straightin reach the point where they are standard English then they _should_ be used in preference to a sort of private vocabulary for a sort of private scientific priesthood. On the other hand gay/straight do not convey which gender is the object of desire, so other terms are needed for that sense. “Gynephilia” and “androphilia” might be reasonable due to widespread familiarity with the prefixes, my point being that science should want to be as accessible as possible to non-scientists, and one way to further this would lie in vocabulary selection. “Cis” does not pass the familiarity test. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/233 "2015-05-02T14:53:29Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Normal. > > It’s a perfectly useful and accurate word. Transgendered people are not of the norm. The same way albinoism is not normal. > > People are losing their freakin’ minds. So what drastic social consequences do you predict if “cisgender” becomes a ordinary and banal (if context-specific) word? Will it cause disaster in forty years, as you predicted for gay marriage? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/234 "2015-05-02T15:26:05Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Anyone else remember the term “Breeder”? > > It is/was a derogatory term for heterosexuals back in the 70’s-80’s. > > Yes, this “if we have to use a prefix, everybody has to” “cis” does smell a bit like “breeder”. Until very recently without breeders no homosexuals would exist, heterosexuals either. Someone has to do it! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/235 "2015-05-02T15:28:13Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > “Cis” does not pass the familiarity test. So what? It’s currently the preferred term among people who care about gender issues, and it’s easy to deduce what it means from context when you encounter it for the first time. There’s no Board of Language that adjudicates what words people use. People coin new words that suit their purposes, and learn other people’s new words through hearing them in use. You’re welcome to try to convince people to use another term. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/236 "2015-05-02T15:32:35Z")
Whenever there is the coining of a new term to try and provide a ‘neutral’ or ‘objective’ wording to describe any aspect of human behavior, there will be those who misuse it, overuse it or abuse it. On both sides. A common example is the pejorative use of “retarded”, originally a clinical term(\*) So the term “cisgender” which is absolutely good and useful for a context of discussion of gender identities, gets abused by some as a tool to dismiss the position of others? Or maybe a small fringe may propose the vast majority of the population be referred to as “cis” all the time? Well, about the first issue the same can be said for just about anything. The usage of “that’s so gay” to mean something’s lame or stupid does not lead gays to reject the term “gay”, but _to fight the insulting usage._ OK, I hear you, we never “adopted” “cis” to refer to ourselves in the first place so it’s not “ours” to reclaim or retake… look, it’s there just as other terms are, that ship sailed. Do the most of it. And yeah, yeah, sure, it’s asymmetrical and the majority/establishment group is assumed to be fair game for taking shots at… well, that comes with being the majority/establishment group. Deal. And as to the second issue: IMO there is\* really no need to change our everyday language\*… unless _you_ insist in specifically differentiating trans people when it is not relevant. _All_ should have the right to say “Jen is a Woman” or to write “Bob is a Man” without it being expected or demanded to specify “Jen is a gay trans female” or “Bob is a cis het male” when that’s not on-topic … and yes, that means recognizing that that you must accept _Jen is a Woman_, full stop, _no need to qualify it_; and at the same time, that _Bob is a Man_ and it is \*not \*a microagression to state it and leave it at that. …or is my privilege showing? 😉 (\*speaking of which, the “clinical” term “heterosexual” seems to be perfectly acceptable to virtually everyone, while the equally clinical “homosexual” [and yes, it’s “homo” as in the Greek for “the same”] became, at best, obsolescent) ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/237 "2015-05-02T15:37:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > It seems like the more equivalent example would be Lactose-intolerant people inventing a new word for Lactose tolerant people, like “Milkies” or “cislactose” or something. > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Like “lactose tolerant”? That seems like a good parallel. > > “What do you mean I’m ‘lactose tolerant’? Why do you have a special word for it! Why don’t you just say I’m ‘normal’?” > > It seems a weird thing to get worked up about. > > There have been times when I’ve described myself as “cis”. There are times that I’ve described myself as “hetero”. There are times that I’ve described myself as “Oklahoman”. Sometimes making these sorts of distinctions is important, sometimes it’s not. It’s not like every situation requires you to explain every aspect of your background. > [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s sort of my point. Lactose intolerant people DIDN’T invent a new term for Lactose tolerant people, it’s just the default. I’ve never heard anyone describe themselves or anyone else for that matter as “Lactose Tolerant” If you are lactose tolerant, you are just normal. Only when you are Lactose intolerant does a distinction need to be made. Wrong. We the lactose-intolerant (I prefer the term “milk-farty people”) are the majority, it was the minority who gave us that term. And as a female born with typical female plumbing, I find “cisgendered” pretty cromulent. I don’t see why anyone would take offense. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/238 "2015-05-02T16:34:29Z")
Michigan Music Festival (a women-only affair) announced recently that only [womyn-born womyn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womyn-born_womyn), a term that describes women who were assigned female at birth and raised as females, would be permitted entry in future. Remember that guy in Monty Python (Chapman, I think) who would interrupt a sketch which had become too absurd by saying authoritatively, “This is all very silly. Stop it!”? Society badly needs him. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/239 "2015-05-02T16:34:17Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > So what? It’s currently the preferred term among people who care about gender issues, and it’s easy to deduce what it means from context when you encounter it for the first time. My premise is that esoteric terms should be avoided and familiar terms preferred, and “cis” is surely esoteric. > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > There’s no Board of Language that adjudicates what words people use. People coin new words that suit their purposes, and learn other people’s new words through hearing them in use. This remark would best be directed at those among the people who care about gender issues whose adjudication has foisted the esoteric “cis” upon the rest of us. > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > You’re welcome to try to convince people to use another term. Good luck with that. I have already suggested the accessible and logical “heterogendered” and “homogendered”. I realize, however, that mine is probably a losing cause given the usual interest group determination to yield nothing once a position has been staked out. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/240 "2015-05-02T16:57:31Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Michigan Music Festival (a women-only affair) announced recently that only [womyn-born womyn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womyn-born_womyn), a term that describes women who were assigned female at birth and raised as females, would be permitted entry in future. I believe that has always been the rule there, and they’ve caught a lot of flak for it over the years (rightfully so). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903.md?page=13)