# "Don't call me 'cisgender'!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903 "2015-04-30T15:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/241 "2015-05-02T17:32:01Z")
My problem with cisgender is the same that many people have with the word, fablet – it looks and sounds stupid. I have no problem with coming up with some word to indicate to indicate people who identify with their birth gender, but it needs to be something that sounds less silly and precious (i.e., excessively refined: affected). ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/242 "2015-05-02T17:43:06Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “Normal” is an accurate word for you to use, inasmuch as it conveys both the denotation and connotation you intend; it helps the audience understand your particular unsavory attitude toward transgendered people. > > It is not, however, **precise**. If you describe someone as “normal,” I don’t know whether you’re trying to say that they’re white, or straight, or religious, or meat-eating, or what. If you said “cisgender,” the word would be a little less accurate for you, inasmuch as it wouldn’t carry the unpleasant connotations you’d like it to carry, but it’d be far more precise. > > For folks who don’t want those ugly connotations, “cisgender” is both more accurate and more precise than “normal.” First, context matters. If I am talking about normal people vs. transpeople, I think the distinction is clear. Or for that matter, I could just say non-trans. Second, cisgender isn’t really more accurate absent any context. Is an intersex person who identifies as intersex or (male/female) cisgender? The issue is that the current party line is that there are dozens of genders. At best, cisgender just tells you if a person agrees with their biological sex, which is almost never the intention of the question when someone asks what gender you are. Further, the word only functions as a meaningful phrase vis a vis transgender people because the distinction made is only relevant to people with that condition. Why does individuals’ experiences of their own gender matching the sex they were assigned at birth matter at all if we are to only asking about gender? That’s part of the reason people find it annoying. It’s trans-centric word that is creeping into spaces to answer questions that weren’t asked. Does it belong in academia to make a specific point? Sure, I can buy that. But that is clearly not the case in a number of cited examples as varied as people using it as a slur, Colbert making a joke that largely works by pointing out the absurdity and commonality of the term in certain circles, and people almost feeling like they need to apologize and acknowledge their “privilege” for having been born like literally almost everyone else on Earth. Again, I ask. Should the presence of rapid aging diseases mean we should create specific terms for our age in years that specify that we are aging in a normal fashion, and to acknowledge how lucky we are to not have progeria or some other disease? ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/243 "2015-05-02T17:44:43Z")
So this is the board where ignorance is celebrated and knowledge deemed too esoteric. Okay then. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/244 "2015-05-02T17:56:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > My problem with cisgender is the same that many people have with the word, fablet – it looks and sounds stupid. > > I have no problem with coming up with some word to indicate to indicate people who identify with their birth gender, but it needs to be something that sounds less silly and precious (i.e., excessively refined: affected). This quite eloquently sums up my point of view. I knew I hated “cisgender” but couldn’t quite put my finger on it. I agree with SA here completely. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/245 "2015-05-02T18:06:57Z")
Several people have made comments about how “they” invented the term cisgender/cissexual as a label for “us”, a group that “they” presumably do not belong to. According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender#Uses), the term was not coined by transgender activists but rather by German sexologist Volkmar Sigusch. I suppose it’s possible that Sigusch is himself transgender, but if so his rather bare-bones [Wikipedia entry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkmar_Sigusch) doesn’t make any reference to this. It seems more likely that he simply felt it would be useful in scientific writing about transsexualism to have a word that specifically meant the opposite of transsexual. I just pulled up his 1998 _Archives of Sexual Behavior_ essay “The Neosexual Revolution” (which seems to be the first time “cissexual” appeared in an English publication), and in it Sigusch writes “For if there is a _trans_‚ a beyond (physical gender)‚ there must be a _cis_‚ a this-side-of‚ as well.” Given that transsexual was already an established term and that the “cis-” prefix has an even longer history as the opposite of “trans-”, I can’t think of a more obvious or less offensive scientific term with the same meaning as cissexual than “cissexual”. I could complain that Mr. Fancypants German Scientist didn’t consult _me_ before he decided that people like me should be called “cissexual”, but no one consulted me before coining any other word, including those that describe other aspects of my identity. Most were well-established long before I was born. I am of course free to object to any term that I dislike, and if I’m lucky then enough people will agree with me that the term will fall out of use, but it would be stupid and petty to object to a word simply because it was coined without my input. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/246 "2015-05-02T18:39:35Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > My premise is that esoteric terms should be avoided and familiar terms preferred, and “cis” is surely esoteric… But there isn’t a familiar term. And we need a word. And “cis” is short, which is generally a good feature. > [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > I have already suggested the accessible and logical “heterogendered” and “homogendered”… Of course, that would be confusing, because the “normal” people are homogendered ( having the same gender as their birth-plumbing) and the trans people are heterogendered (having mixed/different gender from birth plumbing) so my guess is that would spawn confusion, and decrease accessibility. Perhaps most people don’t remember “cis” from high school chemistry, or college biochem. But most people are familiar with “trans” (as in trans fat, as well as trans sexual or trans gender) and in context, I’d guess that most people can guess that “cis gender” is the opposite of “trans gender”. So, I think it passes the accessibility test. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/247 "2015-05-02T18:41:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > My problem with cisgender is the same that many people have with the word, fablet – it looks and sounds stupid… Do you mean phablet, as in a phone so large it’s a tablet? Anyhow, esthetic tastes vary. “Cisgender” just looked a little long and technical to me, but clear and descriptive. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/248 "2015-05-02T19:07:01Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Do you mean phablet, as in a phone so large it’s a tablet? > > Anyhow, esthetic tastes vary. “Cisgender” just looked a little long and technical to me, but clear and descriptive. What I like about it: It does look technical, which usually prevents people from freaking out. It doesn’t look so much like another word that it’s hard to distinguish. It’s not fiddly. It makes me think “Cisalpine Gaul!” every time I see it, which amuses me, and which makes me think I spent too long in Latin. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/249 "2015-05-02T19:42:12Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > I have to assume that DrDeth is upset because someone, somewhere, told him that tranny is offensive and he shouldn’t use it. > > This just isn’t honest and genuine argumentation. Bingo. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/250 "2015-05-02T20:04:00Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Do you mean phablet, as in a phone so large it’s a tablet? Yes, or more specifically, a phone so large that it functions as a combination phone and tablet. [Here’s a thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=748799&highlight=phablet) where there was some talk about why it was so annoying. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/251 "2015-05-02T20:08:54Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > I have to assume that DrDeth is upset because someone, somewhere, told him that tranny is offensive and he shouldn’t use it. > > This just isn’t honest and genuine argumentation. No one has ever said that to me, since I dont use that term. I am not upset. But yes, the word has been hijacked by haters and bigots. Mind you, it’s still a rare word, so not a huge deal. But like i said- the rule here on the SDMB, the thing we have agreed upon- is _that the user of a term does not get to decide whether or not that term is offensive._ **The person who that term is being used about gets that choice.** Why is that useful rule being discarded for this term? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/252 "2015-05-02T20:11:06Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Whenever there is the coining of a new term to try and provide a ‘neutral’ or ‘objective’ wording to describe any aspect of human behavior, there will be those who misuse it, overuse it or abuse it. On both sides. A common example is the pejorative use of “retarded”, originally a clinical term(\*) > > So the term “cisgender” which is absolutely good and useful for a context of discussion of gender identities, gets abused by some as a tool to dismiss the position of others? Or maybe a small fringe may propose the vast majority of the population be referred to as “cis” all the time? > > Well, about the first issue the same can be said for just about anything. The usage of “that’s so gay” to mean something’s lame or stupid does not lead gays to reject the term “gay”, but _to fight the insulting usage._ OK, I hear you, we never “adopted” “cis” to refer to ourselves in the first place so it’s not “ours” to reclaim or retake… look, it’s there just as other terms are, that ship sailed. Do the most of it. And yeah, yeah, sure, it’s asymmetrical and the majority/establishment group is assumed to be fair game for taking shots at… well, that comes with being the majority/establishment group. Deal. > > And as to the second issue: IMO there is\* really no need to change our everyday language\*… unless _you_ insist in specifically differentiating trans people when it is not relevant. _All_ should have the right to say “Jen is a Woman” or to write “Bob is a Man” without it being expected or demanded to specify “Jen is a gay trans female” or “Bob is a cis het male” when that’s not on-topic … and yes, that means recognizing that that you must accept _Jen is a Woman_, full stop, _no need to qualify it_; and at the same time, that _Bob is a Man_ and it is \*not \*a microagression to state it and leave it at that. > > …or is my privilege showing? 😉 > (\*speaking of which, the “clinical” term “heterosexual” seems to be perfectly acceptable to virtually everyone, while the equally clinical “homosexual” [and yes, it’s “homo” as in the Greek for “the same”] became, at best, obsolescent) Good points. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/253 "2015-05-02T20:13:58Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Bingo. Ok, Una, what do _you_ think of the word “Tranny”? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/254 "2015-05-02T20:19:00Z")
I think cisgender would work okay as a term to identify some small subset within the trans community, which is what I thought it was the first time I saw it. But then when I looked it up and found that it’s supposed to be a term intended to apply to (if you’ll forgive me) normal people, my eyes rolled so far I could see my brain. I’m thinking that the term would die out or fail to catch on in much the same way as fablet, except for the fact that a considerable number of people are determined to push it as part of a pro-trans political agenda and using “Science, bitch!” as their foundation, even though I doubt that one in twenty people among the population at large has any idea what the technical meaning of “cis” is. As for me, should an occasion ever occur where I need to refer to the non-trans population, that’s exactly how I’m going to phrase it…“non-trans”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/255 "2015-05-02T20:19:32Z")
By the way, if anyone wants to buy some metal pins that say TRANS, I have some extras. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/256 "2015-05-02T20:25:28Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But there isn’t a familiar term. And we need a word. And “cis” is short, which is generally a good feature. > > Of course, that would be confusing, because the “normal” people are homogendered ( having the same gender as their birth-plumbing) and the trans people are heterogendered (having mixed/different gender from birth plumbing) so my guess is that would spawn confusion, and decrease accessibility. Hetero- and homo- have always referred to people who do not wish to change their birth pluming and there is no reason to be confused about it. If you are looking for one word to encompass both heteros and homos how about “standard” i.e. “standard gender(ed)”. I admit that is a bit clumsy and not very euphonic, and hopefully someone can think if something better, but I will continue to object to “cis” because of its obscurity. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Perhaps most people don’t remember “cis” from high school chemistry, or college biochem. But most people are familiar with “trans” (as in trans fat, as well as trans sexual or trans gender) and in context, I’d guess that most people can guess that “cis gender” is the opposite of “trans gender”. So, I think it passes the accessibility test. “Standard gender” would not require pause to guess or analyze context. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/257 "2015-05-02T20:30:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No one has ever said that to me, since I dont use that term. > > I am not upset. But yes, the word has been hijacked by haters and bigots. No, it hasn’t, and you really need to stop posting things that are demonstrably untrue. > [@](#): > > But like i said- the rule here on the SDMB, the thing we have agreed upon- is _that the user of a term does not get to decide whether or not that term is offensive._ > > **The person who that term is being used about gets that choice.** > > Why is that useful rule being discarded for this term? Speaking of things that are untrue, where did this rule come from, and when did we “all” agree to it? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/258 "2015-05-02T20:36:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, it hasn’t, and you really need to stop posting things that are demonstrably untrue. > > Speaking of things that are untrue, where did this rule come from, and when did we “all” agree to it? Google _“die cis scum”_. Sure, it’s only a few people- but only a few people use the term “cis” anyway. Ok, then- so \*who does \*get to decide? the user? If I use the term “Jap” is it Ok if I dont mean anything pejorative about it? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/259 "2015-05-02T21:15:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Google _“die cis scum”_. Sure, it’s only a few people- but only a few people use the term “cis” anyway. I’m familiar with the term - you haven’t been able to shut up about it for two days now. For what is at least the third time in this thread, the word “cis” in that sentence is not being used as a slur, and more than the word “black” is being used as a slur in the sentence, “Die black scum.” > [@](#): > > Ok, then- so \*who does \*get to decide? the user? If I use the term “Jap” is it Ok if I dont mean anything pejorative about it? You’re looking for a single, bright line rule that determines what words are okay, and what words aren’t. There is no such rule. Language and culture are far too complicated for such a rule to possibly be workable. If you want to determine the offensiveness of any given term, you need to take into account an enormous number of variables, including (among other things) the intent of the speaker, the historical context of the relationship between the speaker and the person he’s addressing (on either an individual or class basis), the history of usage behind the word, the general reaction to the word both by the people it describes, and the people doing the describing, and whether the person objecting is doing so honestly, or is acting out of some sort of agenda of their own. What almost never works is trying to create parallels between other terms. “Jap” is not rendered unoffensive because nobody objects to “Brit.” “Honky” is not as bad as “nigger” because it’s the “opposite” term. It’s not enough just to say, “I don’t like that term, therefore, no one gets to use it.” You need to present an argument as to why it’s offensive, and why I should care that I’ve offended you. Black people can do that very easily for “nigger.” Japanese people can do that very easily for “Jap.” Trans people have a bit more trouble doing it for “tranny,” but it looks like they’re probably going to win that language shift in the long run. As this thread, and your posts in particular, show, there is no good case to be made for classifying “cisgender” as a slur. It’s was not coined as a slur. With vanishingly few exceptions, it’s not used as a slur. And it’s only received as a slur by a small subsection of the population it describes, many (not all) of whom have ideological objections to trans rights from the get go. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/260 "2015-05-02T21:28:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Ok, Una, what do _you_ think of the word “Tranny”? I think I do not need any more Private Messages sent from you to me attempting to police my language on here. Cisgender is a legitimate, scientific word used in the context of discussions on transgender topics. Your heartache over it may be real, but it is unwarranted and without foundation. The fact that some assholes say “die cis scum” means only that they are assholes, who would just as easily post “die normal scum” in lieu of the former pejorative. Despite my not holding a degree in psychology I have been recognized as an community activist, advocate, and researcher on transgender issues, and I shall continue to use the word “cisgender” in the fact-based contexts previously mentioned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903.md?page=14)