# "Don't call me 'cisgender'!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903 "2015-04-30T15:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/581 "2016-03-22T17:35:27Z")
I don’t think anyone in this thread is advocating for what you are railing against. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/582 "2016-03-22T17:38:56Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > You don’t get a cookie for identifying as cisgender either. I agree with you. If you’re using it either to point out how you’re not trans when it’s not relevant or to demonstrate some cachet, you’re being ridiculous. But if it’s relevant, having a word is useful. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/583 "2016-03-22T18:03:00Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I agree with you. If you’re using it either to point out how you’re not trans when it’s not relevant or to demonstrate some cachet, you’re being ridiculous. > > But if it’s relevant, having a word is useful. yep, \*\*gender-typical \*\*seems like a great word! ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/584 "2016-03-22T18:17:48Z")
I’m very supportive of trans issues, but I’m not a fan of the term cisgender either. I get it’s use in a more technical type of discussion where there’s an important and regular need to make a distinction between transgender and cisgender people, but beyond that, I don’t get why it needs to be used in daily language. The reason it bothers me, though, is that it’s just… unnecessary. I’m male, and if someone describes me as male or a man or whatever, that’s fine. And for anyone else, I’ll refer to them as whatever gender pronounds they prefer. Unless we’re specifically talking about something where it’s important to distinguish that they’re transgender, they’re just a man or a woman unless they specifically want to be called something else which, in my experience, hasn’t happened. Isn’t the whole point that people just want to be accepted as who they are? It seems like, for most conversations, adding trans- or cis- serves as a means of adding divisiveness rather than bringing us together. Also, it bugs me on another level in that while I am male, I’m not particularly attached to that, it’s not defining of me, not in the way that there’s manly men or girly women or even effeminate men or butch women or whatever. If I’m asked to use terms to describe myself, there’s plenty of other things that I consider far more important about myself than my maleness. And that’s not to say that it’s wrong for those who have a greater attachment to their gender and whatever things may or may not go along with that. And I also get that for transgender people, it’s obviously going to be more evident to them because it’s wrong, but it still seems to imply a particular degree of attachment that doesn’t exist for everyone. Unless we’re discussing something specifically related to male physiology, it seems unnecessary to even draw attention to it, much less what variation of whether I was born that way or not, and what stage of transition I might be. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/585 "2016-03-22T18:56:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Weirdness of “physique” aside, so all the trans people who are straight are wrong, in your eyes? How should they describe their sexual orientation? Actually, this is a complicated issue in the trans community, which includes a fair number of people who don’t identify fully with either end of the gender binary. They often refer to whether they are attracted to males, females, etc. rather than saying they are straight or gay. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/586 "2016-03-23T12:39:27Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Maybe I have nicer trans friends than you do? I’ve only heard the term spoken in neutral, descriptive way. And the only person I’ve known to use it in writing in a negative way was a men’s-rights activist guy who was intentionally being a jerk and casting aspersions on the non-heteronormative crowd. To be honest, the number of transgender people I’ve had meaningful interactions with in my life could be counted on both hands at most. And gender politics was never part of that, except for one friend who transitioned from male to female, asked to be referred to by their female name and with female pronouns in future, and I was happy to oblige. Also, “heteronormative” is another word I hate because again, only ever heard it used as an insult. Sorry, but 90%+ of the world is heterosexual. It can safely be regarded as the “default” setting for people. That doesn’t make homosexuality wrong or bad (it is neither of those things), but please, don’t try and make out that there’s something wrong or undesirable with having the same sexual orientation as nearly everyone else on the planet either. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/587 "2016-03-23T13:34:25Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Also, “heteronormative” is another word I hate because again, only ever heard it used as an insult. Sorry, but 90%+ of the world is heterosexual. It can safely be regarded as the “default” setting for people. That doesn’t make homosexuality wrong or bad (it is neither of those things), but please, don’t try and make out that there’s something wrong or undesirable with having the same sexual orientation as nearly everyone else on the planet either. 😕 But “heteronormative” doesn’t mean _“presenting heterosexuality as the most common or typical sexual orientation”_. It means _“presenting heterosexuality as the **superior** or **preferable** or **uniquely natural or correct** sexual orientation”_. In other words, being “heteronormative”, as the term is generally defined, **is** tantamount to treating homosexuality as “wrong or bad”. So yeah, of course it’s an intrinsically pejorative term, at least for people who reject prejudiced attitudes towards homosexuality as something “wrong or bad”. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/588 "2016-03-23T13:42:06Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > …Also, “heteronormative” is another word I hate because again, only ever heard it used as an insult… I did not intend it to be insulting. I apologize if you took offense, but I have to wonder if you might see offense where it wasn’t intended elsewhere, too. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/589 "2016-03-23T13:43:05Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Also, “heteronormative” is another word I hate because again, only ever heard it used as an insult. Sorry, but 90%+ of the world is heterosexual. It can safely be regarded as the “default” setting for people. That doesn’t make homosexuality wrong or bad (it is neither of those things), but please, don’t try and make out that there’s something wrong or undesirable with having the same sexual orientation as nearly everyone else on the planet either. I have not heard it so much as an insult as at best dismissively. A sense of somehow finding a scenario that, for instance, assumed that a random couple of SOs picked from the population will overwhelmingly be M/F and most often parents, and it’s “oh, gee, more heteronormative portrayals”. (plus it sometimes gets conflated with patriarchal, which is a different thing) Never ever heard or read it in the sense you define it, **Kimstu.** Again, both words are useful when relevant to the context of the discourse. It’s their misuse or overuse in other circumstances that raises questions. ISTM one big difference between cisgender/heteronormative , and other forms of “check our privilege”, is that yes, these ones really **are** the “default”. There should be no moral impugnation to it. It still means that extra effort should be made to NOT invisibilize or marginalize those who are not, and to be conscientious of how our actions and expressions impact all, but that applies to everyone in every case! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/590 "2016-03-23T13:43:23Z")
although I guess I did mean to describe a guy who liked to point at anyone “different” and say “LOSER!”. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/591 "2016-03-23T13:45:53Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > …Again, both words are useful when relevant to the context of the discourse. It’s their misuse or overuse in other circumstances that raises questions… How often do these words come up in real life? I hang out in circles with a lot of gays and trans people (not exactly the same circles, but they overlap) and unless people are talking about transexuality or something, words like that almost never come up. Maybe someone will ask “what pronouns do you like”, but that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/592 "2016-03-23T13:48:49Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I did not intend it to be insulting. I apologize if you took offense, but I have to wonder if you might see offense where it wasn’t intended elsewhere, too. No, as I noted, **Martini Enfield** is right that “heteronormative” is an intrinsically disparaging term, at least according to standard usage. “Heteronormative” doesn’t mean just recognizing that heterosexuals are more numerous than homosexuals. It implies the assumption that heterosexuality is the **only** “normal” or “right” way to be. If you choose to use the term “heteronormative” in some sense different from that, then people are likely to misunderstand what you mean and to find your use of the term insulting when you didn’t intend it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/593 "2016-03-23T13:51:15Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Never ever heard or read it in the sense you define it, **Kimstu.** Um, [dictionary](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heteronormative)? > [@](#): > > **heteronormative** : of, relating to, or based on the attitude that heterosexuality is the only normal and natural expression of sexuality ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/594 "2016-03-23T14:48:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Weirdness of “physique” aside, so all the trans people who are straight are wrong, in your eyes? How should they describe their sexual orientation? No, all the transgender people who are straight are fine in my eyes. I don’t have any problem with people being transgender, I just don’t like the word “cisgender.” ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/595 "2016-03-23T14:49:33Z")
Huh, will you look at that – so it WAS the people who used it to mean “how dare assume hetero is the default” that were using it “wrong” … But if so it then has drifted in connotation in just 25 years since apparent first record. Overuse, maybe? Ingorance fought. (But then again, if they know this, those using it to attack someone merely guilty of statistical generalization, would be abusing the term, wouldn’t they?) (PS: I wonder if it was coined by someone trying for an alternative to “homophobic” that avoided the argument that it was not fear/hate that was in play…) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/596 "2016-03-23T14:51:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > None of which attributes are covered by the definition of the word “physique.” Whatevs. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/597 "2016-03-23T14:54:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Now that’s comedy gold: > > “I don’t like cisgender, because it has a hissy sound at the beginning!” > > “What should we use instead?” > > “Ssssssssstraight!” > > Anyway, you didn’t answer my question: whatever term we use instead of “cisgender,” what is going to prevent that term from being used as a pejorative in exactly the same manner that “cisgender” is sometimes used? Nothing, I suppose. Nor is there anything to keep me and others from objecting to the new pejorative. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/598 "2016-03-23T15:28:03Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > No, all the transgender people who are straight are fine in my eyes. I don’t have any problem with people being transgender, I just don’t like the word “cisgender.” So straight can mean transgender or. …non-transgender, because it doesn’t refer to gender identity. If it is relevant to a discussion, what word would you prefer be used to indicate gender identity is the same add biological identity? Plenty of cisgender individuals are not straight, and transgender individuals who are, so straight doesn’t work in this context. What word should be used? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/599 "2016-03-23T15:30:36Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I don’t have any problem with people being transgender, I just don’t like the word “cisgender.” What alternative term do you think **should** be used to refer to people who are not transgender? > [@Evil Captor](#): > > I’m not worried though: I don’t see any sign that the term is catching on in the mainstream. Well, last June the [Oxford English Dictionary](http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/cisgender-has-been-added-to-the-oxford-english-dictionary-10343354.html) included it as part of their official lexicon: > [@](#): > > Acknowledging that the language of gender is changing and that the word has now entered common parlance, the dictionary defines cisgender as “designating a person whose sense of personal identity corresponds to the sex and gender assigned to him or her at birth”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/600 "2016-03-23T15:32:13Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > So straight can mean transgender or. …non-transgender, because it doesn’t refer to gender identity. If it is relevant to a discussion, what word would you prefer be used to indicate gender identity is the same add biological identity? Plenty of cisgender individuals are not straight, and transgender individuals who are, so straight doesn’t work in this context. > > What word should be used? You just used _non-transgender_, because of course you did; it’s a term I prefer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903.md?page=31)